Engine freeze - public baseline

[axle]

FFS...

I am saying that if you freeze development of a product especially one as intrinsic as the engine you can't give a permanent advantage away...how is it fair?

If the playing field isn't level you can't have sport.

[modbaraban]

F1 always was a manufacturers competition. The engine freeze was announced in advance so they had a fair competition i.e. to come up with a decent engine before the freeze.

You can as well declare all the races unfair because some start from 1st row and some from the back. How can you have a level playing field for the race when the quali gives advantage to the faster guys?

[Belatti]

One thing that this thread is leading me to think is that if a new team wants to enter F1, how would it be able to develop an engine? Should it test it 3 years before homologation freezing?

[Conceptual]

Sorry Chris, one personal question:

Do you like Formula 1 of the 70´s ?

I have seen some vids, and played the '79 season in rFactor, but began watching F1 in 2004.

I personally don't mind seeing alot of the same engines, like Cosworth had, but when the teams were doing very well developing their own, they froze it, and gave those that were ahead in 2006 THE advantage until 2011.

Even with KERS next year, you will still see Ferrari and McLaren at the top, since the KERS output is limited, and simply gives everyone the same increase, so there is no room to make up the HP deficit, simply extend it.

Chris

[DM0407]

I believe that is exactly what would happen. They would have as long as they want to develop an engine before "entering" F1. It would be interesting to see how the FiA rules on that. Better question, what if Red Bull or TR decided to build their own engines by hiring an outside company (similar to how Renault do it)? How long would they have to develop an engine?

I believe there is a limit on how many teams one manufacturer can supply, so we shouldn't see an all Ferrari Grid.

Also Nascar didn't just handicap Toyota, they handicapped that engines spec. Any other manufacturer that uses the new spec will also be capped. The Nationwide series is not the top form, they need to keep costs in line to allow teams to compete. Its the GP2 of Nascar if you will.

[WhiteBlue]

They should not do anything at all on engine rules just let it stand for 2009-2010. And then focus on 2011 to get the competition entirely on energy saving. the energy limit should be set in such a way that no team can run full power. No rev limit, no cubic limit. Then the team wins that creates the most power from the given energy.

[Michiba]

They should not do anything at all on engine rules just let it stand for 2009-2010. And then focus on 2011 to get the competition entirely on energy saving. the energy limit should be set in such a way that no team can run full power. No rev limit, no cubic limit. Then the team wins that creates the most power from the given energy.

are you proposing a fuel limit for each race?

[modbaraban]

I always liked this idea. WhiteBlue, is it backed by any influential personas in F1 or is this just we two?

[Scotracer]

I'm all for a fuel limit too. 160 litres for a race and see what you can do with that

[Chaparral]

They should not do anything at all on engine rules just let it stand for 2009-2010. And then focus on 2011 to get the competition entirely on energy saving. the energy limit should be set in such a way that no team can run full power. No rev limit, no cubic limit. Then the team wins that creates the most power from the given energy.

What your saying is what Ross Brawn has been saying for a while now - also Mario Illien & John Barnard in a recent Motor Sport UK interview said similar - open up the configuration (V8, V10, V12, Flat 12, H16, Rotary whatever) and fuel restrict it - and change the aero rules to reflect more of a 'ground effects' mechanical grip - and KERS is a bonus. I agree with the concept - currently its 2.4 litre V8's and in reality they are all within 20-25 bhp of each other and the poor old engine techs are laying around bored to death. Belatti - art for art sake yes I agree - it would be ideal if manufacturers were to just supply power plants leave the car and the racing to the teams - well I can dream. Think I will just go and put that DVD of the 1967 season on

[Carlos]

" Think I will just go and put that DVD of the 1967 season on "
Chaparral

Could I borrow that DVD sometime?

[CMSMJ1]

9 days in summer?

Superb footage

Sry OT

A fuel/energy limit is a great idea - it worked for the turbo cars in the 80's..so why not now?

[Conceptual]

9 days in summer?

Superb footage

Sry OT

A fuel/energy limit is a great idea - it worked for the turbo cars in the 80's..so why not now?

After today's race, I would embrace the fuel limiting immediately if it banned refueling!

Chris

[pgj]

I'm all for a fuel limit too. 160 litres for a race and see what you can do with that

I like that idea.

It could even be taken further by banning fuel stops. It would force engine manufacturers to develop fuel efficient engines to reduce weight and would also introduce greater variability into racing as cars would be set for optimum performance either on heavy or light fuel. Allow engines to be developed along fuel efficiency and then reduce the amount of fuel that is available.

I do not accept that a photograph of an exploded engine on a dyno is adequate proof that an engine is dangerous and needs to be modified.

[Conceptual]

I'm all for a fuel limit too. 160 litres for a race and see what you can do with that

I like that idea.

It could even be taken further by banning fuel stops. It would force engine manufacturers to develop fuel efficient engines to reduce weight and would also introduce greater variability into racing as cars would be set for optimum performance either on heavy or light fuel. Allow engines to be developed along fuel efficiency and then reduce the amount of fuel that is available.

I do not accept that a photograph of an exploded engine on a dyno is adequate proof that an engine is dangerous and needs to be modified.

Careful here,

If you gave them 160L of fuel, and the winner was whoever could squeeze out tho most laps for that amount of fuel, they would all be going 15kpm, and look like eggs all bunched up together drafting to save fuel.

It would become an endurance NASCAR with slower cars.

Chris