European GP 2008

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.

Post Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:52 pm

I can not agree with the last few posts.

1) Qualifying is a skill that does NOT necessarily equate to racing speed - I give you Trulli as a shining example. He is (in)famous for qualifying well, then acting as a mobile chicane during the race. We are all familiar with drivers that are better at qualifying than they are at racing.
2) The car that qualifies on pole is NOT necessarily the fastest car in racing conditions. Run a very low fuel load and you can get on pole, even if under racing conditions (a reasonable fuel load) you will only be able to hold up the parade.
3) Car setup can artificially influence a car's starting position. Run a very low drag setup at a fast track (Monza, for example) and you might get pole, but not be competitive in racing conditions.
4) There is an element involved that is not related to driving skill or car speed. Traffic can prevent a fast car from qualifying at its true potential.

I think that's enough (but by no means an exhaustive list) to illustrate my point.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:24 am

donskar wrote:Run a very low drag setup at a fast track (Monza, for example) and you might get pole, but not be competitive in racing conditions.

I agree, except that race setup is usually tuned for lower downforce/higher top speed so that others won' be able to follow you on the straights. In parc ferme conditions if one chooses optimal level of downforce it may work against him in race.
Joined: 22 Oct 2007

Post Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:35 pm

Oh... my... god.







Now, lighthouses of knowledge, which is the race with more overtakings in history?

Clue: it happened last year, blind bunch of whiners. :)

This kind of thread comes to us just because in the last couple of races Massa has been the best driver and Hamilton has not... You do confuse "lack of overtaking" with "lack of Hamilton wins". Pleeze.

Drivers running towards the cars? Have you ever throttled a high powered car with people walking (or running, whatever) on the track? We should change the cars and hire Chitty Chitty Bang Bang for that to work... ;)

Hrumpff... you're making me an old grumpy man and it's Sunday morning, in heavens name!
Ciro Pabón
Joined: 10 May 2005

Post Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:51 pm

Ciro Pabón wrote:Now, lighthouses of knowledge, which is the race with more overtakings in history?

Clue: it happened last year, blind bunch of whiners. :)

Was it the German GP? Two radical weather changes, plus a Midland leading a race aren't signs to be ignored. If not, I'd say Fuji.

I still feel the cars are too disturbed. We'll find out next year anyway, and I put my hopes on the bright guys in the TWG to come up with a better set of aero regulations. And I'll ignore the numbers (and thus my education) and say that the racing isn't as close as it should or could. Yes, I'm an armchair expert that has raced nothing outside his computer and has his perception distorted by the cameramen almost always picking the leaders. And good defensive driving shouldn't be futile. But still... there's a sour kind of feeling after a dull race that had every ingredient needed (apart from fast sweepers) to be great.

Finally I respectfully disagree with alexbarwell, since those starts are terribly dangerous and wouldn't add much if anything to what we have: the most exciting 20 seconds on the TV.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr
Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Post Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:19 am

Puzzling list.

But does it count lapped cars as overtakings ?
Does it count pit lane passes as overtakings ?
The only way to close a stupid question is to give a smart answer
Joined: 10 Aug 2008

Post Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:00 am

No, woohoo, it does not. And the GP was Turkey, of course among dry GPs. Sorry, I shouldn't have made some comments, but the discussion was drifting.

All the graphs are taken from a thread on overtakings here. I think the best comment is made by Ogami: "Today they take place not on the lead but rather in the mid grid with cars set up to fight (because in the mid grid) while the front runner are all set up to post the fastest lap time.."

At that thread you can find the rules of Brian Lawence, overtake-counter extraordinaire: believe me, they are very rational, he's been doing it for decades at "old" usenet group alt.sports.f1.moderated.

Now I know why I was grumpy: I have the flu. So, help me, you guys: that linked thread is a good place to discuss overtakings in general, or you can open a new thread on that subject, if you wish.
Ciro Pabón
Joined: 10 May 2005


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