ISLAMATRON wrote:My reason is that Michilen is no longer in F1 and to me that is the only reason Alonso won his 2 titles. The Michilins were cleary better than the Bridgestones... to me Alonso was not the WDC he was the world Michilin drivers championship. Tires are by far the biggest performance difference in racing and Michilen had a much better product on the track.
2007, he proved he couldnt beat a rookie Hamilton in the same car, and HAmilton has only gotten better. Renault will never have a hug advantage as they did with the Michilen tires so I dont see Alonso winning anymore titles for the forseeable future. Furthermore I see Ferrari being more interested in Vettle than Alonso, So Alonso is effectively stuck at Renault.
gcdugas wrote:While I rate Alonso higher than you do, I was wondering about how evenly you spread your equipment bias in deciding the WDC. Does Schumi deserve the 2002 WDC (every finish a podium) because of a car that was 0.8 sec a lap faster? How about 2001 when the equipment edge was "only" 0.6 sec a lap. Forget about 2004 when the Ferrari was arguably more than a second faster as evidenced by the race at Monza when Ferrari were caught out on the back foot of their pit strategy (due to rain) and Button's Honda was miles ahead. Ferrari suddenly had "another engine map" that enabled them to gain almost 1.8 seconds a lap, The F2004 was so far ahead that they could sandbag almost a full second a lap. Did that Championship count for Schumi? How about Mansell's 1992 crown and Prost's 1993 crown. What about Hill's 1996 crown and JV's 1997 crown. They had huge equipment advantages For that matter Mika's 1998 WDC started with a 1.2 second equipment advantage in the early races because of the B'Stones over Goodyear. Were Mac's 1988 and 1989 championships deserved or was the car so much better that another deserved the crown over Senna and Prost those years?
Where does your logic begin and where does it end?
Conceptual wrote:ISLAMATRON wrote:
Wow it seems conceptual is an imbecile no matter what thread you read" I wanted to check that post about KERS and there he is ranting & raving again, calling people names... incredible.
Yes, yes. I am a big jerk because I don't spend 3 hours carefully wording my posts so there is no way to misinterperet what I am saying, and I fire back when misinterperetation happens anyways.
I believe that I left these boards for a while following that exchange. I was out of line with some of my language I admit, and it ended up being settled via PM.
Anyways, so Torotrak is ran by ex-Renault people, but they are not working with Renault? Why does that not make any sense?
ISLAMATRON wrote:.... I currently rank Alonso amoung the top 5 F1 active drivers, possibly higher, top 3 maybe... to me thats pretty high, just not at the top.
WhiteBlue wrote:You believe that Renault can be called a top team? In my view they are not and not very likely to make it into that elite circle in the next year. A top team is one that drivers think may be fighting for championships next year or that is in the fight in the running season. In my view McMerc and Ferrari certainly fit that bill. It takes some speculation to believe BMW's self declared target to be in that elite club next year. I happen to believe that they can do it. They have thrown a lot of resources at next years car to the detriment of their performance in the last races as you remarked.
Miguel wrote: Some folks have noted how the R28 was a worse car on fuel than on fumes.
Belatti wrote:WhiteBlue wrote:You believe that Renault can be called a top team? In my view they are not and not very likely to make it into that elite circle in the next year. A top team is one that drivers think may be fighting for championships next year or that is in the fight in the running season. In my view McMerc and Ferrari certainly fit that bill. It takes some speculation to believe BMW's self declared target to be in that elite club next year. I happen to believe that they can do it. They have thrown a lot of resources at next years car to the detriment of their performance in the last races as you remarked.
According to your definition of top team:
Did you believ Renault was a Top Team at the end of 2004?
Did you believ Benetton was a Top Team at the end of 1993?
Did you believ McLaren was a Top Team at the end of 1997?
It seems you have no idea about what can a team do inside factory the whole year and develop during a summer.
ESPImperium wrote:I think youre forgetting the fact that the Renault had all sorts of "grey area" devices on it to make it perfore well... Mass Damper anyone???
Those systems are now banned, but Renault have this year shown, that a good development programme will hone and shape a car, and with Alonso, who is very hands on for development, is a unstopable team.
They will be hard to beat for 09, i also feel that the teams without KERS will have a advantage to start the year, as they wont have posible relyability problems later on in the early races, but those who dont have KERS on the start will get a cleaner start as they wont have that up to 40-45KG extra weight on them and they wont have to wait for the charge to kick in, gaining a extra .3 of a second extra speed build up.
It will be tough to call for 2009, but id give it till the start of the european season and youll be able to call it better then.
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