US car industry about to break down?

[xpensive]

Having worked as a Design-engineering manager in the traditional industrial area of Pennsylvania-Ohio for a few years in the mid-late 90s, all I can say that I am surprised this didn't happen a loong time ago.

[Conceptual]

Probably.

And Islamatron,

Don't blame the idea for what the early politicians did. They were greedy, power hungry people, just as we have today.

I would like to know who the first person in Federal Congress that believed that it was the job of the Congress to CONTINUOUSLY introduce new legislation. That flawed belief is where it all started.

And we don't have slavery now? Are you serious?

Slaves were given food and shelter. The new tax regime of 50% for the upper middle class will not even leave them that.

But you like Robin Obama Hood, don't you? It must be much easier to believe that you are owed the fruits of others' labor. I, for one, call that a leach, or a parasite, not the "Modern American".

[xpensive]

Good Lord, are you a libertarian Conceptual, I would never have guessed...?

[bhallg2k]

Slaves were given food and shelter. The new tax regime of 50% for the upper middle class will not even leave them that.

No one is going to pay 50%; not even those who earn the most. I don't know where you got that figure.

[Conceptual]

Good Lord, are you a libertarian Conceptual, I would never have guessed...?

No, I'm a "Leave me the f*ck alone, I am an adult, and can make my own life decisions" kind of guy.

It just so happens that most Libertarians think the same way.

And to the "NO ONE will pay 50%" guy, have you even READ the proposal? It is very eloquent in its stealing from the rich, and giving to the poor.

If the Fed. Govt. did what it was Constitutionally devised to do, it wouldn't need ANY money from the taxpayers, because they would only deal with our borders, money system, and military. Anything beyond that is outside the scope of the powers of the Fed, and if you disagree, I call you a treasonous traitor, as I call them.

I am not very worried at this point however, there is a very strong movement by the States themselves to de-constitute the Federal Government, and since they are the original power of the USA, it is well within their right and ability to do so.

At least I sleep better knowing that my kids won't have to goto work just to support Islamatron. He can get off his arse and get his own stuff.

[bhallg2k]

The highest Federal tax rate is going to go from 35% to 39.6%. That's far from 50%, even if you calculate the increases to the capital gains tax, and it's all very fair.

And what of this movement by the states to "de-constitute" the Federal government? I've neither heard nor read of such a ridiculous idea.

Or do you think the U.S. is still bound by the Articles of Confederation?

[ISLAMATRON]

Slaves were given food and shelter. The new tax regime of 50% for the upper middle class will not even leave them that.

No one is going to pay 50%; not even those who earn the most. I don't know where you got that figure.

Yes & slaves were well fed and well treated... conceptual has made it all so clear for us now... thank you oh visionary.

The Upper middle class have it sooooo bad.

[ISLAMATRON]

If the Fed. Govt. did what it was Constitutionally devised to do, it wouldn't need ANY money from the taxpayers, because they would only deal with our borders, money system, and military. Anything beyond that is outside the scope of the powers of the Fed, and if you disagree, I call you a treasonous traitor, as I call them.

And how then should the federal government pay for the most expensive largest military in the world... you know the one that costs more than all the other militaries combined?

If those are the only things you believe the Fed should be concerned with then stay the --- off the interstate because thats all federal right there and youwouldnt want to be a hypocrite would you? MAybe you should stay off planes too, since the FAA runs that too. Just stay in your little corner of the world... and stop watching F1 on TV since you dont think the FCC shouldnt exist either.

[Conceptual]

If the Fed. Govt. did what it was Constitutionally devised to do, it wouldn't need ANY money from the taxpayers, because they would only deal with our borders, money system, and military. Anything beyond that is outside the scope of the powers of the Fed, and if you disagree, I call you a treasonous traitor, as I call them.

And how then should the federal government pay for the most expensive largest military in the world... you know the one that costs more than all the other militaries combined?

If those are the only things you believe the Fed should be concerned with then stay the --- off the interstate because thats all federal right there and youwouldnt want to be a hypocrite would you? MAybe you should stay off planes too, since the FAA runs that too. Just stay in your little corner of the world... and stop watching F1 on TV since you dont think the FCC shouldnt exist either.

See, once more pointing out even MORE abuses to the rules. Keep em coming!

And why is the US military so large? It's only Constitutional purpose is to defend the borders of the US. Are you saying that they are busy doing something else that is un-Constitutional?

The system that you so clearly support is owned by pharmacutical companies, insurance companies, banks, and organized crime. Money matters more than people, and everyone that is successful must support those that choose not to even try. Our individual freedoms that are guaranteed by our Constitution are constantly being whittled down, put into groupd like "Womans Lib" or "Civil Rights".

If you believe that it is right for the Federal Government to legislate mediocrity on myself or my kids, I would call you a jack-ass.

You can take that belief, and stuff it straight up your ass. It may clean the --- out of your eyes and ears.

State Soverignty:

[jon-mullen]

God I hate giving money out to those who don't deserve it! I mean, so your ancestors were enslaved or discriminated against, boo-f*cking-hoo! Ever heard of boot-strapping? Just go ahead and leave whatever ethnic ghetto you happen to be living in and go get a job, duh.

What? Massive unemployment due to bad decisions by the capitalist non-producing class, an over-leveraged financial system and laws favoring outsourcing? A failing public school system? Deteriorating infrastructure? Stop trying to blame all your problems on this great country, you had every opportunity in the world!

(sarcasm)

I think Conceptual is absolutely right that the Federal government constantly oversteps its bounds, especially in light of the 10th Amendment which has barely ever been ruled on. However, we're coming to realize that an economy based on a well-capitalized upper class and the rest selling their labor hours for cash is unsustainable. If we don't start assessing value to where our commodities come from, who's making them, and how their workers are being paid, we will finish this race to the bottom and all be out of a job. You don't need Federal legislation to get things done, but you do need to correctly identify the problem: the non-producing capitalist class.

[xpensive]

Either way, I think Conceptual is way out of line, language-wise.

[Conceptual]

If the Fed. Govt. did what it was Constitutionally devised to do, it wouldn't need ANY money from the taxpayers, because they would only deal with our borders, money system, and military. Anything beyond that is outside the scope of the powers of the Fed, and if you disagree, I call you a treasonous traitor, as I call them.

And how then should the federal government pay for the most expensive largest military in the world... you know the one that costs more than all the other militaries combined?

If those are the only things you believe the Fed should be concerned with then stay the --- off the interstate because thats all federal right there and youwouldnt want to be a hypocrite would you? MAybe you should stay off planes too, since the FAA runs that too. Just stay in your little corner of the world... and stop watching F1 on TV since you dont think the FCC shouldnt exist either.

Yes, mine is so far outta line...

[jon-mullen]

Well you know these are emotional times and it's VERY frustrating to watch your country go down the tubes while the lawmakers in DC argue. I'm more worried about the people that AREN'T getting burned up about this mess, regardless of political leanings.

[bettonracing]

So how's 'bout that auto industry, eh?...

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton

[Ray]

I'll say a few things.

Governments have no reason to be involved in my education, my wallet, or what I do behind my closed doors at home. A mans home is his castle. They have no right to take away my guns, I've been robbed once and I don't plan on it happening again. If the perp kills me with my own gun, fine. But he'll have to beat me to death with it because it's empty. They have no right to stop me from teaching my children what guns are for and to teach them how to use them. They have no right to punish my children for sticking up for themselves in school. They have no right to tell me what I can or cannot say. They have no right to tell me where I can or cannot smoke (I do it outside and away from others if you were about to crucify me on that ). They have no right to tell me whether or not to wear a seatbelt, but I do because it's stupid not to. They have no right to tell me that I have to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle, it's my head and if I want it spread across two lanes of traffic, my choice my consequence. They have no right to tell me that I can't tell my children to question authority, ALL authority should be questioned lest they decide they themselves can only make rules. They have no right to make me not discriminate against others for their behavior, language, attitude, rudeness, or intelligence. They have no right to tax me for whatever reason they want. They have no right to tell me I must be mindful of calling someone an idiot. They have no right to tell a business who they must sell to, or lend money too, or how they can market their products. All of this trouble we are in was caused by legislation and strongarm tactics to give the Federal Government more power over the people. They don't know what's best for me. I DO. I challenge anyone to show me a government run program that isn't wasteful, inefficient, and committing illegal acts or fraud. ONE.

I'll quote someone on Autoblog.com that hit the nail on the head about our out of control taxes. Won't post his name, but it was one of the best things I've read in a long time.

But with expanding government spending, and then taxing some employees, but not others is going to cause BIG PROBLEMS.

I wholeheartedly agree that government should get out of the way. I disagree that it should only be GM, or other bail-out situations.

How about the government gets shoved back into the corner that the US Constitution limits it to, and the american people get back to doing what americans do. Innovating, and solving problems.

"ooh, but that'll hurt..." what big-gov't types don't realize, is that big government programs waste more, infringe more, disenfranchise more, and HURT more.

Tax cuts. FOR EVERYONE. FLAT CONSUMPTION TAX AT THE RETAIL LEVEL. No income taxation, no automatic withholding of people's money from them, no hidden corporate taxes masquerading as business expenses. You will SEE exactly what you pay in taxes, on every receipt for every retail transaction. And businesses will see the tax collection in plain numbers on their receipts too, and that will be it. Easy audits, and the tax code in a pamphlet, rather than a set of encyclopedias.

But you will keep every penny of your wage, and employers will be more free to pay you, and others appropriately, and nobody will be penalized for saving it or investing it. Taxes punish whatever activity they are associated with, and it is less damaging on economic transactions than it is on wages (employment), savings (responsibility), or investment returns (innovation and growth), especially if kept appropriately low for the REAL governmental roles, not social engineering and wasteful ponzi-scheme social safety nets.

It would "stimulate" a re-organization of our economy back to the sort of free-markets that haven't been seen in a century. Yet it would be done with today's measurements and technologies as advantages, not as convoluted mess of legalese that damns people if they do or do not.

That requires two things. Removal of the corrupt and power hungry elements of government that will never relinquish the power back to the people, they will instead enslave the people under an economic thumb...

Secondly, the drastic and demonstrable retraction of government from almost all of it's social program spending and wasteful bureaucracy, to return to a balanced budget under much lower tax burdens for the people.

The government is regulated to be only used for the enumerated powers. A fast but measured retraction back into that box is required.

If lowering taxes for GM will work, and it would... why would it not work economy-wide? But you have to cut back government drastically, and foster a culture of self-reliance, not government-reliance in this country, while cutting the taxes. Give people their economic freedom back, expect and foster responsibility with that freedom. THAT used to be the American way, of economics, of politics, of Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness. Not control, regulation, and equality of outcome.

I am a free man. The way the government here is overstepping it's bounds, and infringing on my liberty to live life as I want and suffer the consequences is unwelcome. I don't want it, they can't force me. I don't want to pay for someone elses mistakes, I have my own to shoulder. A man by the name of Patrick Henry said "Give me Liberty, or give me death." Shame there aren't more people like him. Willing to die so that others like him can live free.