Ferrari F14T

[Thunder]

To be honest seeing the Aero Rack today mounted in that exact Hole in the Axle i'm not sure they were trying a blown Axle alltogether anymore.
Could very well just been that they didn't want to take apart the whole Front from Tuesday to Wednesday and ran the Mount even Yesterday.

[bhall II]

They're running a rear wing flap last seen during the preseason Bahrain tests.


Bahrain test


Silverstone test

You can see where it's jointed in order to remove the top-most portion to adjust the balance of the car. It's also set at a much lower AoA than the one used a few days ago during the race.

[rajs41]

Did Ferrari today test new sound system on the exhaust?

[pastaracing]

This is my thoughts about Ferraris front suspension, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Only Caterham and Ferrari runs pull rod suspension in front.
They are also the teams with the most angled front suspension arms.

If I just measure quick on the picture below they are in a 20degree angle at ride height which means that the track width would increase with approximately 15mm each side when suspension is 50mm compressed. Adding that is also a camber gain that I suppose they have built in.


That is a lot of change in track width, in 'normal' design you want to have as little change as possible.
Compare to, for example the Mercedes, which has almost horizontal upper suspension arm.

Could this be a factor when they have differences in handling at low speed corners(no down force, only mechanical grip) and high speed corners(mostly aero grip).

I understand that they design this to achieve other things like aero gain and lower center of gravity etc.

[jayeshrc]

That is a lot of change in track width, in 'normal' design you want to have as little change as possible.
Compare to, for example the Mercedes, which has almost horizontal upper suspension arm.

I dont think so, because even the merc will have vertical movement in the suspension arms, so it comes down to the same thing

[atlantis]

Did Ferrari today test new sound system on the exhaust?

Wasn't it tested in FP1?
(edit= maybe not)

[pastaracing]

That is a lot of change in track width, in 'normal' design you want to have as little change as possible.
Compare to, for example the Mercedes, which has almost horizontal upper suspension arm.

I dont think so, because even the merc will have vertical movement in the suspension arms, so it comes down to the same thing

With a horizontal suspension arm the wheel will travel almost vertical at first, when the angel of the suspension arm increase the outer point of the arm will move inwards, seen from the cars travel direction.
On Ferrari, with the suspension arm angled downwards, the outer point will move outward and this will start directly because of the already steep angle.

[trinidefender]

This is my thoughts about Ferraris front suspension, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Only Caterham and Ferrari runs pull rod suspension in front.
They are also the teams with the most angled front suspension arms.

If I just measure quick on the picture below they are in a 20degree angle at ride height which means that the track width would increase with approximately 15mm each side when suspension is 50mm compressed. Adding that is also a camber gain that I suppose they have built in.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... pf14t6.jpg

That is a lot of change in track width, in 'normal' design you want to have as little change as possible.
Compare to, for example the Mercedes, which has almost horizontal upper suspension arm.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... upw05u.jpg
Could this be a factor when they have differences in handling at low speed corners(no down force, only mechanical grip) and high speed corners(mostly aero grip).

I understand that they design this to achieve other things like aero gain and lower center of gravity etc.

Yes it makes a difference. Look at McLaren who have some of the flattest suspension arms, they have some of the highest front end grip levels in slow corners with a very responsive front end. In 2013 McLaren did a switch to pullrod for the centre of gravity and mainly aero reasons. They weren't happy with it and now they are back with what they know, flat suspension arms for lots of mechanical front end grip by stopping the tyres lateral movement on suspension movement. Also this lateral movement causes more wear on the tyres as you can surely imagine.

I take it Ferrari still believes that the aero and centre of gravity benefits are greater for their philosophy.

[PlatinumZealot]

IMO it doesn't make much of a difference. F1 suspension barely move haha!

Mclaren is a good example. They have been changing in and out from very steep to almost horizontal over the years... and the drivers don't really notice.

The Same for Ferrari.. this was one of the wost Handling Ferraris and looked what it had. Even when they changed the suspension for Kimi there was was no noticeable change in the steepness of the arms.

[Owen.C93]

Won't having such high wishbone angles mean an increase in track under compression? Pretty negligible I'm sure.

[trinidefender]

IMO it doesn't make much of a difference. F1 suspension barely move haha!

Mclaren is a good example. They have been changing in and out from very steep to almost horizontal over the years... and the drivers don't really notice.

The Same for Ferrari.. this was one of the wost Handling Ferraris and looked what it had. Even when they changed the suspension for Kimi there was was no noticeable change in the steepness of the arms.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... actice.jpg

Well considering the MP4-28 had very steep angled suspension and horrible mechanical front end grip and the MP4-29 has flat suspension arms and has very good mechanical front end grip I think there is some merit to it. With pullrod the angle of the pullrod itself means that the angular force exerted on the chassis is much higher than on a pushrod. There were calculations done on this before. This exacerbates the effect of the track width change.

If the effect was negligible then wouldn't all teams be using pullrod in that case with the aero benefits of moving the suspension arms much further out of the way.

[PlatinumZealot]

Your sample size is quite small there. hehe

I am no suspension specialist but the angle of Formula 1 suspensions doesn't affect the handling characteristic to the effect people think it does. It is all got to do with the intention of the suspension designer.

The RedBulls had steeply angled suspension and they we pretty good handling cars.

The Mclatrn MP4-24 had very good handling, it was one the best at low speed turns and it had the steepest arms in a Mclaren.

[jayeshrc]

Well considering the MP4-28 had very steep angled suspension and horrible mechanical front end grip and the MP4-29 has flat suspension arms and has very good mechanical front end grip I think there is some merit to it. With pullrod the angle of the pullrod itself means that the angular force exerted on the chassis is much higher than on a pushrod. There were calculations done on this before. This exacerbates the effect of the track width change.

If the effect was negligible then wouldn't all teams be using pullrod in that case with the aero benefits of moving the suspension arms much further out of the way.

hmm, its not all down to the angle of the suspension arms and the tiny change in track. I'm sure examples supporting the opposite of your examples are out there. See, talking about forces, they're all going to be similar, just in different directions and has no direct correlation to grip. Too many other factors involved while designing suspension

[trinidefender]

Well you all can say what you want but designing sports cars or any car that uses mostly mechanical grip the designers always aim for flat or very nearly flat suspension arms. This is to minimise track width change under suspension compression and extension.

Another, probably major effect of having your suspension arms at a large angle from parallel to the ground is that you change the roll centre of the car. Generally designers aim to get the roll centre just below or as close to the centre of gravity as possible. While I am no suspension expert there is a lot of information about this. Having the roll centre closer to the centre of gravity by using flatter suspension arms/geometry means that for the same roll rate you can run softer anti roll bar springs or less roll by using the same anti roll bar springs.

Any suspension experts please feel free to correct me and can you provide some sources so I can learn more for next time.

[TechF1]

Modified sidepods panels in Silverstone testings.