Tilke is an artist...

[mrmr]

Sorry I thought I could post a picture... didn't work.

[Belatti]

OK???

Well, I think Tilke is a FIA Clown more than an artist

Haven´t he seen any of the races runned in one of his Kartodromes???

Has he done something else apart from Turkey 4 apex curve?

He ruined Hockenheim and every track he made was a 200kph conventional mediocre track.

I would suggest Ciro to design the tracks of the furture!

[Tom]

To be fair new Hockenheim proves an awesome venue for the DTM. But as far as designing goes I wouldn't trust Tilke to make me a scalectrix track.

[PNSD]

To be fair new Hockenheim proves an awesome venue for the DTM. But as far as designing goes I wouldn't trust Tilke to make me a scalectrix track.

Indeed, but when all the run-offs were added, the DTM cars found it quicker to basically drive on the run offs.

They basically took amazingly wide lines so that didnt have to brake :p as much that is.

[Belatti]

Indeed, but when all the run-offs were added, the DTM cars found it quicker to basically drive on the run offs.

They basically took amazingly wide lines so that didnt have to brake :p as much that is.

Its understandable, DTM cars have not as many problems as F1 when accelerating over the kerbs, due to less power and more weight

IMHO running wide in run-off areas while fighting for position (like Massa and Kubica in the last GP) is the same as cutting chicanes, what Massa did should not be allowed in the future.

[naknak_56]

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[Phoenix]

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[Belatti]

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[Tom]

I watched the replays and it was quite clear that Massa gained a position from his move while Hamilton did not, and avoided an incident like 1998 which saw half the field eliminated. Hamilton has been guilty of alot of ugly driving this season but I don't think any of it has been comparable to Massa so blatantly going outside the track (no overtaking outside the white lines!) to keep or gain his position, Kubika left him enough room and he could always have moved back inside Kubika. His only defence is that it was great racing and Robert committed a similar move earlier in the lap.

[mx_tifoso]

IIRC, there was a similar battle eariler in this season that involved Rosberg and Kovalainen. With at least one of those two participants entering and exiting the track at one point or another, no ever argued or doubted the legality of those manouvers before. Personally, I believe that every move that happened under the battle between Massa and Kubica was legitimate as they come, it was wet, their was pressure, and it was good ol' racing, which is what we all want to see. There are, or where, many online videos of this battle, but unfortunatly they were taken off by the FOM, although I'm sure there are a few remaining.

When nothing happens, people argue, when something does happen, people still argue.

I was also very surprised Kubica didn't make a scene about the whole thing, like Alonso did. And the F107 didn't suffer from too much damage either, as Massa's wheels happend to "scuff" it a few times here and there.

And has this thread been hijacked or what! At least it went in a good direction.

[naknak_56]

My last post on this topic but

Did I say that? Please tell me, because if I did I will go nuts! Mad

Beyond that, Hamilton was avoiding a crash,Hamilton was at race start, critical traffic situation

yep the way i read your comments it was exactly what you said, but later in your post you said

accelerating outside the track in order to being quicker seems to be illegal

these are two contradictory statements as Hamilton obviously did accelerate hard and while he didn't gain any positions from this it did prevent him from loosing lots of positions.

This is exactly my problem with the tarmac runoff zones, there is no punishment for running off the track! In years past you go off track out of the race or loose some time trundling out of the gravel.Also these Tilke designs make the tracks so safe for cars but totally unsuitable for bike racing.

[kurtiejjj]

Thank god for the hamilton-alonso incident at SPA, finally something to get excited about again, that's real racing, how it should be done. The Massa- Kubica fight was probaply one of the best things we have seen all year!

And Tilke is indeed a clown, they should get Hugenholtz back to design the tracks. Remember he designed Zandvoort and Suzuka, and one of the best corners in racing the "Tarzanbocht", overtaking in almost every lap round the inside and outside! And have Tilke design the surrounding building, much better solution!

[Spyker MF1]

Hamilton obviously did accelerate hard and while he didn't gain any positions from this it did prevent him from loosing lots of positions.

Just watched the Spa start again and the way I see it Hamilton was infront of Alonso after going wide but the only reason he didn't keep the place was because he couldn't keep it nailed around the outside of Eau Rouge. Exactly the same situation as Massa and Kubica, the only difference being is the Massa wasn't on the wrong line for a corner afterwards while the cars were still able to hit each other. Also he didn't try and squeeze Kubica into the wall.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, I don't know about Tilke's designs from the point of view of racing. You can argue pro and con.

I've posted many times how the "modern" tracks allow more overtaking.

I've explained why I like the grass strips on the outer edge of curves and why paved areas must substitute leca and gravel.

I've said that the calculation of the "envolvent of possible car trajectories" is the most important safety device in history of racing.

I've mantained that spiral curves (like number 1 at Shangai, check it next GP) are better for the sport (Nick Heidfeld sustains the opposite: http://www.f1technical.net/news/7274 )

What I don't argue, what I affirm, is that, from the technical point of view, (and I'm talking highway engineering here) modern tracks are difficult to enhance. They can be, perhaps, more entertaining, but not better.

I dream of a day when roads will be made with the same technical tools. That, for me, is more important than car safety devices.

And let's not talk only about Tilke: what about

- Ed Bargy: author of Talladega and upgrades to Nashville, St. Louis, Road America, and also of my beloved "Race Track Design"
- Roy Propsner, dedicated since 1981 to tracks and "all entertainement facilities"
- Wilson Motorsports: this guy is a legend. Short list of tracks designed: Barber Motorsports Park, Mont Tremblant, BeaveRun, Carolina, Gingerman Raceway, Mid-America, Arizona, Miller, Autobahn Country Club, Motorsports Park, Hastings, Calabogie, Las Vegas, Pikes Peak, Denver, Columbus, Minneapolis, Grand Rapids, Dallas, Addison, Gainesville, TRC Dynamic Handling Course and Kansas?

Alan Wilson, father of Desiré Wilson: an interview with Wilson about track design, where he speaks about the "laser-smooth, polymer race-mix surface 40 feet wide" tracks he makes.


Ed Bargy

[tk421]

I'm watching my DVR of the GP of Singapore, and it reminds me of how terribly frustrated by Tilke's designs I am. From the bird's eye cameras, I can see great corners which he ruins with useless kinks and ridiculous kerbs, therefore eliminating overtaking opportunities instead of creating them... What could be a much faster and sweeping 16-corner track still with 3 or 4 overtaking opportnities is instead a 23-corner yawn of a race. Obviously the sample is small (one race ), but the only excitement in 2008's race came with a crash and a binned pit-stop.

My issue with Tilke is that he is the only person (for some idiotic reason or another) that F1/the FIA turn to for new tracks and track improvements. As Ciro pointed out, there are plenty of outstanding designers out there, so one has to ask: why does he have a monopoly in the industry?

Where do you think drivers would rather race: Shanghai or Spa? Turkey or Monza?

Just because a track is new doesn't mean it can't be 5 or 6 miles long with only 12 or 15 corners, a high average speed, and still have plenty of overtaking opportunities...

Tilke isn't going to change, so I beg the powers that be: diversify your track designers!!!!