A topic that needs good clean debate and insightful thinking

[majicmeow]

Please keep in mind that the following is only MY opinion, so take it for what it is worth. I'm more of a "reader" here but I do like to contribute to anything that I feel is worth my time and that I have knowledge to contribute with. Keeping that in mind, I feel that I have a right to my opinion and a right to voice it. That being said, here we go...

God has this forum hit the bottom this winter...

It used to be FULL of amazing technical information and insightful comments and questions.

Now we have a bunch of thread with people bickering at each other over diffuser designs, McLarens pace and heaven forbid, the economic state that we are in and the effect that race (not the fun to watch kind either) has had on it...

I'm pretty open minded and don't mind a little of topic chatter here and there but when I open up a testing thread and want to really get some good information out of it, strings of post with nothing but emoticons, "lolz", talk about balaclavas and flaming are getting bloody tiring.

Seeing as only a percentage of people here actually follow the forum rules about OT posts and post etiquette, I hereby put forward these motions:

1- I move that AT LEAST 2 more moderators be added to this forum. Preferably people who are neutral and have a PROVEN history of good conduct. They must also be REGULARS (ie: more than once a day visitors) to this site.

2- I move that these moderators have the ability and right to delete/lock/edit posts that are deemed to be offensive and off topic. These powers would of course be subject to a few rules and regulations (just so you dont all start bickering about "supreme power" and "forum czars" and "freedom of speech")

These rules could include (but not be limited to):
- requiring a reason for edit in the edited post/thread
- requiring a PM to the offender in the event of an edit
- a warning system that is viewable to the users of the forum
- a temporary ban of repeat offenders

I know that this might seem a bit sever, but this site is rapidly loosing all control and the current mod team seem to be unable or (perhaps only partially) unwilling to solve it.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone I consider MOD material (including myself), I just want to raise the subject to some GOOD CLEAN debate.

All useful and insightful comments are welcome. If you have nothing good and productive to contribute, please just hit the "back" button.

Thanks!

-Aaron

[cba_]

Please keep in mind that the following is only MY opinion

Wait, what? Maybe you should check this out... viewforum.php?f=7

I vote for more mods to remove this thread.

[majicmeow]

ironically enough, I noticed that I was in the wrong forum only milliseconds after I hit the "Submit" button.

Instead of double posting, I let it be in hopes people would be able to "see past it".

oops... my mistake. Doesn't make me look silly at all, does it?

[jon-mullen]

I vote we send Max and Bernie a letter that they need to start the gp season a couple weeks earlier. I don't think we'll be talking about balaclavas and the economy once the season starts.

We might still be talking about McLaren's slow place though.

[xpensive]

I vote that we limit access this forum to engineers only.

[Carlos]

I would certainly agree with majicmeow. I think the etiquette and technical content has certainly declined. I can comment on both tech and etiquette as my posts meet standards ... but have raced to the bottom of the decline. Note to self - cleanup and put more effort into content - or just stop posting, devote myself to scholarly interpretation of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series or leave the building. It's especially good to have new members comment on this with an honest and fresh perspective. There's a lot of things to improve on - looking up from the bottom of the slope. It's an important matter, to be sure.

[xpensive]

Again Carlos, as a relative newcomer here, I have been surprised by the lack of interest in purely technical issues, where I have tried a few my own pet issues over the past months with limited success.
Second guessing testing and aerodynamical results seems to be so much more intriguing to most of the population. But if you ask me, bickering with an Irish Aeronautical Engineer over density, and be proven wrong at that, gives me one hell of a buzz.

[noname]

(...) I have been surprised by the lack of interest in purely technical issues (...)

I am disgusted by this but not surprised. To make things worst it's not only the problem of this forum but our civilization as a whole. It's driven by "gurus" of financial engineering and big corporations interested in remaining status quo. For them innovation is an enemy which should be destroyed, as it only generates cost. Science and engineering are not very popular this days.

I still remember very well my former GM and his words - "no more f...ing heroes, cut-off innovations !". On the outside he was very proud of working for the company having innovation in its DNA (if you look at their adverts you could even think they are the main force changing the world). Sad thing is he is not the only one having such an attitude.

I may be a little bit of-topic so if you think I deserved to be banned I am ready to take it

[safeaschuck]

How about splitting each forum into a two tier affair, one for those with highly specalised technical knowledge, deep experience of a high level role in aerospace or motorsport or a degree level education in engineering/physics etc.
You can sign up for the premier account by submitting your background/qualifications for consideration and then be able to post in the high level forums.
I for one would not make the cut, but (where I can understand what is being discussued) would be happy to read the post without the ability to add anything.
Then it keeps certain areas free from the driftwood some people are getting hacked off with?
And those in the know can feel free to drop in and slum it with the rest of us whenever the mood takes them, or some 'erbert like me needs something explaining!

I can understand that those seeking craving deep technical debate are getting disillusioned but I also notice the some of the moderators being very welcoming to new and in-experienced members, growth brings new possibilities, the children are our future and all that. This site has many of the printed publications licked already, it just needs the audience. Also I can imagine in 10-20 years time the next generation of engineers may fondly discuss there time on this site, that is if there are any! (and they are allowed to post ).

[Moanlower]

My opinion is, if I may, since i'm not a university engineer or professor, that you are exagerating things.

This is the general chat section where everyone is free to express their opinions, ask questions or share thoughts as long as you respect eachother. And often the respect part is the problem. I'm not going to interfere in technical discussions where I know nothing about and most others don't do that either.

I've noticed that often the problem is EGO. Respect people's opinion or 'silly' questions even if the answer looks so obvious to you. And people who are not that good in english should also have a chance to speak their mind without jumping on him like he's not good enough.

If you particulary want to discuss advanced aero or technical related stuff you can do that in the 'Aerodynamics, chassis and tyres' or 'Engine, transmission and controls' sections.

I also think people should lighten up a bit and not take everything dead serious in general chat topics. There's enough misery in the world already. What's the problem if someone tells a joke in between or post a silly picture as long as it's not becoming the main issue.

But then again, that's my opinion. Respect!

[Carlos]

I would like to thank everyone for contributing to the thread and encourage every member with suggestions and opinions to post their ideas and impressions. I would like to express my thanks to majicmeow for starting the thread. Each and every post helps to advise our esteemed hosts Principessa and Tomba and our generous, esteemed moderator; Ciro. I say generous because of the time he is willing to devote to F1Technical; about what our community feels is important to the forum. This thread is a kind of town hall meeting. I am sure it can help form the future direction of the Forum.

I don't think you need to be an 'expert' in an area to comment on an expert thread but willing to do some research on the subject. Most of my experience is in motorcycles beginning with the storied past of the 1960's. In an engine thread I could contribute a little on head design and porting. If I commented on a thread about chassis and suspension design, lets say aluminum monocoques, I'd offer a little anecdotal information from my general knowledge ... they were built of duraluminum G and many of the suspension fixtures were aviation, the techniques of riveting were aviation and do some research offering a few sources and maybe a picture of construction techniques. I'd try to add to the discussion. Maybe recommend a book. The point is discovery, self education, helping other people gain knowledge. You know that sort of thing can inspire careers and interests. I remember a thread about shock absorbers and a link went on to tell the story about how a 2 wheeler motocrosser suspension mechanic went on to found Penske's racing shock absorbers company, read about Mark Donahue who raced Penske's F1 car, then think of Swede Savage that was a motorcycle roadracer and went on to open wheelers, Googled Mike Hailwood who went from 2 wheel championship domination to F1 which lead to John Surtees, then the transverse 1.5 liter V12 Honda F1 of 1964, then on to Honda's engine developement and Surtee's F1 Monza win of 1967(?) The greatest race finish ever. You get the idea what this Forum can give to people.

You never know what your going to get from F1Technical ... or give to other forum members.

It all starts with motorcycles though.

Anyone remember Gordon Jennings?

Course it all comes back to motorcycles in my mind

Edit - That air-cooled Ra 203 V8 program was one of the most misbegotten, tragic mistakes Honda ever made, rushed to the track to promote Honda's aircooled European roadcar program which was also a failure too. A marketing effort that cost a driver his life. That's what I've read about it. Remeber the accident.

[xpensive]

Right, and the afetermath of Jo Schlesser's fatal crash in that air-cooled Ra 203?

[Ciro Pabón]

Ok, normally, I wouldn't say a thing, but it seems to me your going out of thread.

To contribute a little to majicmeow suggestions, I would like to inform that post etiquette, up to this moment, depends entirely on the criterion of the moderating team. Allow me to add that we have a very open criteria (hi, Carlos! ), we try hard NOT to become "soup nazis".

The soup nazi


Besides that, the only explicitely stated rules are (more or less): post in the appropriate forum, do not spam and do not use slow links.

We do have a warning system in place: the fact that is not known by the majority is a good sign. We try not to make a fuss out of it; in the few cases it has been used, all communications are private. We normally try to solve things by convincing people: it works very well.

Having entertaining forumers and in-depth, interesting threads is a thing that cannot be moderated.

Moreover, reported posts are few: this gives me an idea of how civilized is people here. I frequent some other forums and, compared with them, I think this site is heaven on Earth. Anyway, if you think that a post is frivolous, help us by reporting it. We'd try our best.

I don't know what God wishes, but, as you've heard me say so many times: "Give me numbers instead of opinions". The numbers of the forum are solid. F1Technical has had more visitors year after year and the site has the same level of traffic as the ones created by seasoned professionals. So, some numbers about this winter pause, for your comments:



I'm not a believer, but, after the growth of this site during this winter, I would like to make mine the words of the italian poet Antonio Porchia:

"My God, I have almost never believed in you, but I've always loved you".

If God needs my approval (I don't think so), He has it: this world is good.

[Racehound]

to Majicmeow......i write on many forums and under multiple aliases......you are right!....this has been a great forum but somewhere the tech info disappeared!!!?? maybe we should search past posts and find out WHO was supplying this informative/interesting information! but still i come back to read waht is going on here! i think that even tho the tech aspect might be missing for you here, the people here still have many other insights that need serious reading to really get a grasp of. (The more technical data you might want probably resides more at Atlas F1 forum nowadays, as they are more interested in F1 from that viewpoint!) and look for the old "Ronspeak" stories, which should have you splitting your sides sooner or later!..very funny!!!!) ps if you are female...17-99 and need a --- give ma a call!!! my name is Quagmire!!!

[Belatti]

I liked Moanlowers opinion, Carlos comments and Ciros insights.
Me myself used to be a fire starter, I remember hitting a forumer I miss (chekered, are you there?) without even a well based reason.

Majicmeow, when things goes pop they always change. First they seem to be special and then they get the pollution the masses brings. But as Ciro said: this is heaven on earth. Im not saying it cant be improved, but check against other forums as a parameter. Also, you can always bring old topics into new discussions.

Cheers!