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Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 19:40
by Holm86
ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:32
Holm86 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:08
I'm still hugely disappointed that they didn't do anything on the engine side. I'm fine with keeping they current layout, but at least up the fuel flow and rpm a bit.
It annoys me when Ross Brawn is being so hypocritical, saying they need to think of the environment, when the engines in F1 are already best in class when it comes to TBE, and the cars are the least polluting thing of the F1 circus
Adding fuel flow WILL NOT increase rpm, especially with more distance per PU required because of more race weekends. These are already the most powerful race day engines in F1 history, there is absolutely no reason to increase fuel flow.
I never said it would, I said I think they should have increased both.
Increase the fuel flow to 120kg/h but at 13.000 rpm instead of 10.500, some people still want the sound of a high reving engine, myself included. And more powerful engines would make the cars more difficult to drive, I want that too.
And now they are talking about having 20% renewable fuel in the tank, which probably means that it will have lower energy content than the fuel they run now. That will make the engines less powerful
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 19:42
by Holm86
I wonder if they're allowed in season testing now that there's a cost cap, they should be allowed to spend their money as they like??
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 19:45
by ENGINE TUNER
The banning of inerters seems to be the most interesting development of today, also the banning of any hydraulic components in the suspension.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 19:46
by RZS10
Nah ... they even placed further restrictions on wind tunnel and CFD time
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 19:48
by AMG.Tzan
The blue car will be what we will get most likely i believe! No one will ever make sidepods like the red car...they look really nice but same did the concept nose and sidepods for the 2017 cars!
That green car sidepods tho!!
Mclaren will go wild...bring back 2011!!
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 19:50
by ENGINE TUNER
Holm86 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:40
I never said it would, I said I think they should have increased both.
Increase the fuel flow to 120kg/h but at 13.000 rpm instead of 10.500, some people still want the sound of a high reving engine, myself included. And more powerful engines would make the cars more difficult to drive, I want that too.
And now they are talking about having 20% renewable fuel in the tank, which probably means that it will have lower energy content than the fuel they run now. That will make the engines less powerful
increased revs decreases longevity, non of the PU manufacturers want that, especially with more races coming. Plenty of empty seats at historics racing if you want loud high revving engines, they are free too. The cars are plenty powerful, the PU manufacturers are saving their pennies for the next big engine reg change in 2025 or so.
Also, they are already allowed limited in season testing.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 20:18
by Wass85
ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:34
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:14
Yes, they are keeping DRS. If the cars are easier to follow DRS will make it even more of a borefest. I'm telling you they are not wired up right, atrocious decision making.
DRS zones are(already) adjustable in length, all the way down to 0m. There is no reason to take it off the car, especially if you might need it since the tires are still pirelli garbage.
So if they are adjustable to that length then what's the point of keeping it?
Yes I agree the tyres are garbage but drivers will just wait for the DRS zones to make a pass, this will be even easier to do so because the cars can follow closer.
So basically it will be the same but with slower cars, not excited in the slightest tbh.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 20:22
by ENGINE TUNER
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:18
ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:34
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:14
Yes, they are keeping DRS. If the cars are easier to follow DRS will make it even more of a borefest. I'm telling you they are not wired up right, atrocious decision making.
DRS zones are(already) adjustable in length, all the way down to 0m. There is no reason to take it off the car, especially if you might need it since the tires are still pirelli garbage.
So if they are adjustable to that length then what's the point of keeping it?
Yes I agree the tyres are garbage but drivers will just wait for the DRS zones to make a pass, this will be even easier to do so because the cars can follow closer.
So basically it will be the same but with slower cars, not excited in the slightest tbh.
The point of keeping it on the car is because they might still need it. Better to have it and not use it, than to need it and not have it. If they see that they don't need it they can lower the drs zone to 0m for the race and possibly keep it for qually to increase the speeds.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 20:33
by Wass85
ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:22
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:18
ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:34
DRS zones are(already) adjustable in length, all the way down to 0m. There is no reason to take it off the car, especially if you might need it since the tires are still pirelli garbage.
So if they are adjustable to that length then what's the point of keeping it?
Yes I agree the tyres are garbage but drivers will just wait for the DRS zones to make a pass, this will be even easier to do so because the cars can follow closer.
So basically it will be the same but with slower cars, not excited in the slightest tbh.
The point of keeping it on the car is because they might still need it. Better to have it and not use it, than to need it and not have it. If they see that they don't need it they can lower the drs zone to 0m for the race and possibly keep it for qually to increase the speeds.
Yep fair enough, if that's the case then let them use it anywhere at any time. If it gives you free laptime then bang it on IMO.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 20:33
by AMG.Tzan
Won't the Front Wing design as shown in the concept car, create outwash?? Just like Ferrari's 2019 FW...
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 20:47
by AMG.Tzan
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:18
ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:34
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:14
Yes, they are keeping DRS. If the cars are easier to follow DRS will make it even more of a borefest. I'm telling you they are not wired up right, atrocious decision making.
DRS zones are(already) adjustable in length, all the way down to 0m. There is no reason to take it off the car, especially if you might need it since the tires are still pirelli garbage.
So if they are adjustable to that length then what's the point of keeping it?
Yes I agree the tyres are garbage but drivers will just wait for the DRS zones to make a pass, this will be even easier to do so because the cars can follow closer.
So basically it will be the same but with slower cars, not excited in the slightest tbh.
Tell that to Hamilton and Bottas...last time they waited for the DRS zone behind a Ferrari, all they got was the gap increasing at the end of the straight!
DRS is great by now...at the start of its usage (2011-2012) yes it wasn't! But nowadays DRS is a tool that helps drivers get close at the end of the straight and try a move under breaking! Just look at Perez vs Ricciardo last time out...DRS didn't guarantee Danny a pass even though the straight was really long!!
For me the whole deal of waiting a car to get within DRS range and then attacking is exciting! I don't understand why people hate it so much nowadays! Every now and then i watch old F1 races from the 90s-00s and seeing drivers get stuck behind other maybe slower drivers lap after lap just looks so boring to me and sometimes i think...look if he had DRS he would have a chance at least to outbreak the driver ahead at the end of the straight!
Other ideas like push to pass aren't that great since the defending driver can always use it at the same time as the attacking driver and just get away with it!
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 20:54
by Wass85
AMG.Tzan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:47
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:18
ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 19:34
DRS zones are(already) adjustable in length, all the way down to 0m. There is no reason to take it off the car, especially if you might need it since the tires are still pirelli garbage.
So if they are adjustable to that length then what's the point of keeping it?
Yes I agree the tyres are garbage but drivers will just wait for the DRS zones to make a pass, this will be even easier to do so because the cars can follow closer.
So basically it will be the same but with slower cars, not excited in the slightest tbh.
Tell that to Hamilton and Bottas...last time they waited for the DRS zone behind a Ferrari, all they got was the gap increasing at the end of the straight!
DRS is great by now...at the start of its usage (2011-2012) yes it wasn't! But nowadays DRS is a tool that helps drivers get close at the end of the straight and try a move under breaking! Just look at Perez vs Ricciardo last time out...DRS didn't guarantee Danny a pass even though the straight was really long!!
For me the whole deal of waiting a car to get within DRS range and then attacking is exciting! I don't understand why people hate it so much nowadays! Every now and then i watch old F1 races from the 90s-00s and seeing drivers get stuck behind other maybe slower drivers lap after lap just looks so boring to me and sometimes i think...look if he had DRS he would have a chance at least to outbreak the driver ahead at the end of the straight!
Other ideas like push to pass aren't that great since the defending driver can always use it at the same time as the attacking driver and just get away with it!
I don't mind DRS at all in it's current format with these cars. I just don't like the sound of DRS in 2021 when the cars will be much easier to follow. Why would a driver attempt a risky pass when he can sit close behind and wait for the DRS zone? Bin DRS and bring back KERS, at least that brings some real strategy to overtaking and defending.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 21:39
by WillGuna
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:54
AMG.Tzan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:47
Wass85 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:18
So if they are adjustable to that length then what's the point of keeping it?
Yes I agree the tyres are garbage but drivers will just wait for the DRS zones to make a pass, this will be even easier to do so because the cars can follow closer.
So basically it will be the same but with slower cars, not excited in the slightest tbh.
Tell that to Hamilton and Bottas...last time they waited for the DRS zone behind a Ferrari, all they got was the gap increasing at the end of the straight!
DRS is great by now...at the start of its usage (2011-2012) yes it wasn't! But nowadays DRS is a tool that helps drivers get close at the end of the straight and try a move under breaking! Just look at Perez vs Ricciardo last time out...DRS didn't guarantee Danny a pass even though the straight was really long!!
For me the whole deal of waiting a car to get within DRS range and then attacking is exciting! I don't understand why people hate it so much nowadays! Every now and then i watch old F1 races from the 90s-00s and seeing drivers get stuck behind other maybe slower drivers lap after lap just looks so boring to me and sometimes i think...look if he had DRS he would have a chance at least to outbreak the driver ahead at the end of the straight!
Other ideas like push to pass aren't that great since the defending driver can always use it at the same time as the attacking driver and just get away with it!
I don't mind DRS at all in it's current format with these cars. I just don't like the sound of DRS in 2021 when the cars will be much easier to follow. Why would a driver attempt a risky pass when he can sit close behind and wait for the DRS zone? Bin DRS and bring back KERS, at least that brings some real strategy to overtaking and defending.
You could change the way in which you could use the DRS. Establish a limited amount of times you could use it, but enable the driver in front to activate it as well, if the cars are less than 1 second apart.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 21:40
by hollus
2021. Regs.
Please take the off topic negativity elsewhere.
Re: 2021 Aero Thread
Posted: 31 Oct 2019, 22:49
by Maplesoup
AMG.Tzan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2019, 20:33
Won't the Front Wing design as shown in the concept car, create outwash?? Just like Ferrari's 2019 FW...
No Ferrari style wing moves air inboard. Red bull style wing create outwash