MP4-26 diffuser material

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Fil
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MP4-26 diffuser material

Postby Fil » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:17 pm

Photo i took of the MP4-26 in the scrutineering section, post-race. Interesting that the central section of the diffuser is no longer coated.
Also assuming the 5 visible blue strips are temperature stickers?

Image
Last edited by mx_tifoso on Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: split 6 pages from MP4-26 thread
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Richard
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby Richard » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:35 pm

What is interesting is that the underside is grey across the full width. So that infers there are hot gasses across the full underside. Of course the alternative is that the difference is about the pragmatism of rushed fabrication.

Some people say the grey parts are where the diffuser was made from titanium, others reported the grey as a covering over a CF diffuser. Does anyone have anything other than heresy on this?

wunderkind
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby wunderkind » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:55 pm

richard_leeds wrote:What is interesting is that the underside is grey across the full width. So that infers there are hot gasses across the full underside. Of course the alternative is that the difference is about the pragmatism of rushed fabrication.

Some people say the grey parts are where the diffuser was made from titanium, others reported the grey as a covering over a CF diffuser. Does anyone have anything other than heresy on this?


I agree with an earlier poster that the diffuser is coated with zircotec. The zircotec is applied onto the carbon fiber diffuser by plasma spraying. That is the only way you can get a good finish on carbon.

Caerdroia
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby Caerdroia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:12 pm

wunderkind wrote:
richard_leeds wrote:What is interesting is that the underside is grey across the full width. So that infers there are hot gasses across the full underside. Of course the alternative is that the difference is about the pragmatism of rushed fabrication.

Some people say the grey parts are where the diffuser was made from titanium, others reported the grey as a covering over a CF diffuser. Does anyone have anything other than heresy on this?


I agree with an earlier poster that the diffuser is coated with zircotec. The zircotec is applied onto the carbon fiber diffuser by plasma spraying. That is the only way you can get a good finish on carbon.


Martin brundle claimed it was titanium as does the forumla1.com website under the technical news.

feynman
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby feynman » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:39 pm

Caerdroia wrote:Martin brundle claimed it was titanium as does the forumla1.com website under the technical news.


Unless the BBC are issuing mass spectrometers as part of their commentary kit, I am not sure how he would know. F1.com technical news doesn't have a great track record, and if Brundle simply read it there, then we still haven't really second sourced it.

Looks like Zircotec sprayed over carbon composite to me.
Image

Worth a coupla hundred degrees in shielding:
Image

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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby Dragonfly » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:55 pm

Fil wrote:Photo i took of the MP4-26 in the scrutineering section, post-race. Interesting that the central section of the diffuser is no longer coated.

Maybe it is still coated but they put some kind of foil over those spots.
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myurr
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby myurr » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:57 pm

Well Brundle said it was made from titanium as it was a built as a rapid prototype.

What would be the lead time on a complex CF diffuser coated in Zircotec?

Caerdroia
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby Caerdroia » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:04 pm

It appeared on Forumla1.com after it was said by brundle. He also said it was made of titanium rather than coated. Not saying he's right, just repeating what he's said. :)

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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby Richard » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:17 pm

I recall Brundle saying it was "coated" not "made from" titanium.

Anyway, look at the evidence. Look at where the grey meets the black in Fils pic from the pit lane. It clearly shows the grey stuff as paint.

bot6
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby bot6 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:39 pm

There is no way this diffuser is made out of titanium, considering the shape.

A titanium based thermal coating is possible however, or more probably a titanium-compound ceramic.

feynman
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby feynman » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:52 pm

myurr wrote:What would be the lead time on a complex CF diffuser coated in Zircotec?


For ordinary punters, just coming in off the street, if you pay for Express service, Zircotec will turn round your component after plasma-spraying it in 48 hours.

I guess a McLaren could maybe get it a little quicker if required.

FW17
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby FW17 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:01 pm

F1.com tech review suggests that the floor was titanium made by quick prototyping technique.

This will require Electron beam melting process. Any idea if MTC has such capabilities?

hollowBallistix
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby hollowBallistix » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:30 pm

In that picture it looks more like Titanium that's been coated rather than Carbon Fibre, look at the colour & the reflection on the centre section

As for manufacturing it out of Titanium then...

Superplastic Forming (SPF)

SPF of titanium alloys is commonly used in aircraft part fabrication, allowing production of complex structural efficient, lightweight and cost-effective component configurations. This high temperature sheet forming process (typically 870-925C°(1660-1700°F)) is often performed simultaneously with diffusion bonding (solid-state joining) in argon gas-pressurized chambers, eliminating the need for welding, brazing, sizing or stress relief in complex parts. Titanium sheet alloys that are commonly superplastically-formed include the Ti-6Al-4V and Ti SP-700 alpha-beta alloys.

RacingManiac
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby RacingManiac » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:45 pm

How is it formed though using SPF? Does it require a tooling of somekind? Is it like a stamping/extruding process?

I can see why they would go with some kind of RP route since to make the carbon version they'd need to manufacture mold, then layup and do all the fiddly bits. But I don't know if some kind of metal RP process will be any faster if you still need to tool up something....

hollowBallistix
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Re: McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Postby hollowBallistix » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:50 pm

RacingManiac wrote:How is it formed though using SPF? Does it require a tooling of somekind? Is it like a stamping/extruding process?

I can see why they would go with some kind of RP route since to make the carbon version they'd need to manufacture mold, then layup and do all the fiddly bits. But I don't know if some kind of metal RP process will be any faster if you still need to tool up something....


Here you go, this is Aluminium though

Video 1 : Forming Demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPFAoLmJ5og

Video 2 : Strength Demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7OZY_mG80




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