Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:19 pm

FrukostScones - Easy, just look at the head on view as they come down the straight. One driver is following the white line, the other in the middle of the track swings over to take the racing line and clips the guy who is still following the white line.

It was an exact repeat of the crash in qualifying when some driver clipped another who was happily following the white line.
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:24 pm

richard_leeds wrote:FrukostScones - Easy, just look at the head on view as they come down the straight. One driver is following the white line, the other in the middle of the track swings over to take the racing line and clips the guy who is still following the white line.

It was an exact repeat of the crash in qualifying when some driver clipped another who was happily following the white line.


how can I take you serious, there was steering input to the right by Kobayashi, it is hard to work out when it was applied... Instead of looking for the missing originals, you want to start all over again?
"Double points is Tyranny!"
FrukostScones
 
Joined: 25 May 2010
Location: Bonnie's Ranch

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:31 pm

Do you not see the guy in the middle make a big sweeping move to the left, while the already guy on the left seems to follow the white line give or take an inch.
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:36 pm

FrukostScones wrote:
richard_leeds wrote:FrukostScones - Easy, just look at the head on view as they come down the straight. One driver is following the white line, the other in the middle of the track swings over to take the racing line and clips the guy who is still following the white line.

It was an exact repeat of the crash in qualifying when some driver clipped another who was happily following the white line.


how can I take you serious, there was steering input to the right by Kobayashi, it is hard to work out when it was applied... Instead of looking for the missing originals, you want to start all over again?


Rubbish you are imagining things!!!!!! :wtf:
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos
 
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:38 pm

djos wrote:Rubbish you are imagining things!!!!!! :wtf:

I don't think he is – I see the input too, though I still think the crash is the fault of hamilton's earlier leftward input. The commentators originally also called it as Kobayashi's fault saying that he turned into the corner before hamilton did. Given that so many people saw it I'm pretty sure that there's no imagination going on... Doesn't change who's fault the crash was though, or that it was a racing incident.
beelsebob
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: Cupertino, California

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:25 pm

I wouldn't rely too much on commentary. Having watched BBC replays recently showed me there is a lot of patriotism in every broadcast. In Germany all the German drivers are praised, di Resta for example is only talked about in a side sentence whereas he gets a lot of coverage in the BBC.

I think one gets the best overview watching the race in German, English and maybe Italian/Spanish commentary :D That way there will be enough input about all the drivers and incidents from different points of view ;)
Mandrake
 
Joined: 31 May 2010

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:32 pm

Does Swaziland TV do a commentary? ... maybe they'd favour the man of African decent.

errr.....

Radio Seychelles?
richard_leeds
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:22 pm

haven't checked yet :p
Mandrake
 
Joined: 31 May 2010

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:28 pm

FrukostScones:
Try going back a few pages..click on the link that I posted and actually look at the pictures and no matter how big a fanboy you may be, there can be no argument of who steered into whom.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
"To race is to live. But those who
died while racing knew, perhaps,
how to live more than all others."
~ Juan Fangio
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:58 pm

Actually if you look at the last three frames of the incident below, it does seem quite clear that Kobayashi moved away from the line a bit before the contact - a tire's width or so? Also, it appears to me that in the second to the last frame Hamilton has already begun his turn into the corner, if only slightly. Looking at this, I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Kobayashi was to blame.

Pieced together by someone on Atlas - great work...

Image
Pup
 
Joined: 8 May 2008

Post Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:14 am

Pup wrote:Actually if you look at the last three frames of the incident below, it does seem quite clear that Kobayashi moved away from the line a bit before the contact - a tire's width or so? Also, it appears to me that in the second to the last frame Hamilton has already begun his turn into the corner, if only slightly. Looking at this, I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Kobayashi was to blame.

Pieced together by someone on Atlas - great work...

Image


Great find but iif you zoom in on the the second to last frame (very easy to do on my iPad) you can clearly see that Lewis Almost has his rear wheel in between kamuis wheels so the last frame only shows that contact has been made and Lewis is merely trying to extract himself from and accident that is already in progress (tire smoke is clearly visible proving contact is well and truly in progress).

It's also pretty obvious that Lewis progressively drove into Kamui whose line never deviated until the collision actually took place!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos
 
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:35 am

If nothing else kobayashi certainly had room, even if he would have been on the korbs. no need to lift
Lycoming
 
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Post Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:07 am

Lycoming wrote:If nothing else kobayashi certainly had room, even if he would have been on the korbs. no need to lift


After a fairly wet weekend I would not be wanting to touch those kurbs with great haste. Especially braking down from 190+mph.

We've seen at Barcelona water tends to settle in the kurbs, and as these are not used by the F1 car's I would assume they would be slippery still.
PNSD
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2006

Post Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:32 am

The kerns were quite dry on that day. Usually the sun is enough to dry them after a while of no rain. Everywhere on the circuit kerbs were used as per normal
失败者找理由,成功者找方法
raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:50 am

djos wrote:
Pup wrote:Actually if you look at the last three frames of the incident below, it does seem quite clear that Kobayashi moved away from the line a bit before the contact - a tire's width or so? Also, it appears to me that in the second to the last frame Hamilton has already begun his turn into the corner, if only slightly. Looking at this, I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Kobayashi was to blame.

Pieced together by someone on Atlas - great work...

Image


Great find but iif you zoom in on the the second to last frame (very easy to do on my iPad) you can clearly see that Lewis Almost has his rear wheel in between kamuis wheels so the last frame only shows that contact has been made and Lewis is merely trying to extract himself from and accident that is already in progress (tire smoke is clearly visible proving contact is well and truly in progress).

It's also pretty obvious that Lewis progressively drove into Kamui whose line never deviated until the collision actually took place!


Does not compute.
You are making things up.

Following driver can see more, he is responsible and has more options.
There was no wall stopping Kamui from staying out either.

Look on the Button overtakes in this race. See how each driver has mercy on him.
even webber into eau rouge with Alonso. All merciful.
This mercy is not extended when they want to get a few stripes off Hamilton.
Kamui simply couldn't execute the move. He ran out of skills and the car was unstable under braking.
For Sure!!
ringo
 
Joined: 29 Mar 2009

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