Lotus E20 Renault

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Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:04 am

Maybe it's that Raikkonen is back to destroying cars; as in his McLaren days. But now that the engines are bullet proof he's going for the chassis.

But really, I am very interested in what could have happened with these chassis.
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mx_tifoso
 
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: North America

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:24 am

Raikkonen smuggled Vodka into Entone in an Epoxy resin bucket.
"You can't change what happened. But you can still change what will happen.
Sebastian Vettel"
n smikle
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2008

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:32 am

It's not that much of a cost at all. In 2006. Alonso used just one chassis for whole season and won the championship. Even if it is 600.000 euros per chassis, teams spend much more on technology with FIA defined minimum life expectancy which is also "frozen" for the sake of "cost cutting", including traveling, accommodation, hospitality, catering, advertising, printing and other secondary costs during one season.

BTW, Lotus reported that their discovery of a problem will lead to modifications on both chassis, which means that it was not an error during production of this one or an accident that caused problem, but a design flaw they haven't noticed in Jerez.
manchild
 
Joined: 3 Jun 2005

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:00 am

失败者找理由,成功者找方法
raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:52 am

manchild wrote:BTW, Lotus reported that their discovery of a problem will lead to modifications on both chassis, which means that it was not an error during production of this one or an accident that caused problem, but a design flaw they haven't noticed in Jerez.


I would tend to agree with you about it being a design error if it affects several chassis but Gary Anderson has said he's of the opinion it's a manufacturing fault.
Maybe it's something to do with inspection & testing, the designers haven't specified how the stringent the inspection & testing should be on that part of the chassis so when it was on the test rig it didn't get found.


"It's the kind of thing that you can fix, ideally back at the factory in a controlled environment. But you could do that in one day so if they aren't going to run this week, it suggests that they maybe need to do more than just inject glue and put fasteners in. So it could be a more dramatic problem and maybe it will need new chassis.

"Chassis 3 would likely be on its way for Melbourne and might be at the point in the manufacturing process where you could integrate the fix properly. If they did that, it's possible that Lotus might have to have that chassis and one patched up one for Melbourne as it's a tight turnaround to build a fourth chassis if it hasn't started."

Anderson adds that he feels the problem is more likely to be a manufacturing fault than a design error.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97620
george1981
 
Joined: 3 Jan 2012

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:47 pm

I would really appreciate it if someone would explain the whole process of how the chassis gets built as well as how many and at what stage and how it fits in with the crash tests and just the general timeline of things.
Is it usual for a team to build 3 chassis'?
Sorry if my question seems a bit silly and vague - I just have no idea on this process and would love someone knowledgeable to explain it in detail.
Tyler
 
Joined: 6 Jul 2011

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:13 pm

If I had to hazard a guess...

Right now I'd guess at a flexing tub around the front suspension pick-ups.


They'll band-aid a few more lamina onto the bulkhead to improve torsional rigidity and be back. Hopefully, the problem is at the front/front suspension pick-up points and not the rear/front suspension pick-ups... strengthening there would be quite a bit harder I think.


But of course, that is a guess. Nothing more.
kilcoo316
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2005
Location: Kilcoo, Ireland

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:13 pm

Tyler wrote:I would really appreciate it if someone would explain the whole process of how the chassis gets built as well as how many and at what stage and how it fits in with the crash tests and just the general timeline of things.
Is it usual for a team to build 3 chassis'?
Sorry if my question seems a bit silly and vague - I just have no idea on this process and would love someone knowledgeable to explain it in detail.


Let's say they need at least 3, that is if they can re-use a chassis that they use for the crashtest, it has to survive it and protect the driver. It nowhere says it needs to stay in one pieces.
But let's assume it does. They have 2 drives so they need 2 chassis to start with and a spare one for the "spare" car which is more a spare tub these days as they most likely carry over engine/gb etc from the racecar.

I think, correct me if i am wrong here, that the tub can be waiting in the garage or behind for use with the front suspension already connected but not much else. Whcih save them a bit of time building it up if they have to.

From previous seasons most teams use 2 - 3 chassis per driver... so a total of 6-8 chassis per season is fairly normal.
j3st3r
 
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Location: The Netherlands

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:17 pm

j3st3r wrote:
..SNIP...

From previous seasons most teams use 2 - 3 chassis per driver... so a total of 6-8 chassis per season is fairly normal.


I think he wants to know _how_ the chassis is build , what it's made from , what's the build-process
And not the amount of chassis per driver etc ...

It's a tad old but you can find more info at http://formula1.about.com/od/car1/a/carbon_fiber.htm about chassis , carbon , etc

Edit : added a link about the chassis build process
blokkie
 
Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Belgium

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:26 pm

Tyler wrote:I would really appreciate it if someone would explain the whole process of how the chassis gets built as well as how many and at what stage and how it fits in with the crash tests and just the general timeline of things.
Is it usual for a team to build 3 chassis'?


I can't give you the lead-times... but the basic process would be:

0. Discuss previous year's chassis with all departments to evaluate areas that were weak, what needs improving etc.

1a. Get an outer mould line from the aero-heads.
1b. Get suspension points, target torsional rigidities and wheelbase from the vehicle dynamics guys (who will also talk to aero-heads constantly during this).
1c. Get ancillary interfaces from the other design people (engines/systems etc)

2. Starting from your front suspension and rear-bulkhead, produce initial draft design from fore/aft to centre, using the likes of CATIA, Fibresim and Altair HyperWorks. CATIA and Fibresim will hold your geometric and laminate information (including the real drape angles of the plies), which is then simulated in the FEA using Hyperworks (or another package).

3. Iterate (2) until your reasonably happy you meet the requirements laid down in (1).

4. Report areas of dis-satisfaction to aero-heads/vehicle dynamics/systems etc to see if compromises can be made.

5. Iterate (3) varying the requirements given in (1) until all departments are happy with the tub. With an integrated engine, you can expect the engine pick-up points to move around to aid overall torsional rigidity/kg.

The overall objective is to maximise torsional rigidity while minimising tub weight. I'm not sure if the polar moment of inertia is considered such a sensitive variable anymore.


6. Build initial tub and crash tub.

7. Test initial tub in first track test.

8. Initial tub becomes 7-post rig chassis, 2nd tub becomes reserve race chassis. 3rd tub becomes 1st race chassis. 4th tub becomes 2nd race chassis.


The teams will build many more than just 3 tubs during the year.
kilcoo316
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2005
Location: Kilcoo, Ireland

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:06 pm

manchild wrote:It's not that much of a cost at all. In 2006. Alonso used just one chassis for whole season and won the championship. Even if it is 600.000 euros per chassis, teams spend much more on technology with FIA defined minimum life expectancy which is also "frozen" for the sake of "cost cutting", including traveling, accommodation, hospitality, catering, advertising, printing and other secondary costs during one season.

BTW, Lotus reported that their discovery of a problem will lead to modifications on both chassis, which means that it was not an error during production of this one or an accident that caused problem, but a design flaw they haven't noticed in Jerez.


More like 150 thousand US for a chassis.
"You can't change what happened. But you can still change what will happen.
Sebastian Vettel"
n smikle
 
Joined: 12 Jun 2008

Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:23 am

Oskari Saari wrote:Lotus just confirmed to me that the team is seeking permission from other teams to use 3 days they wont drive in BCN in a private test.

That seems a bit optimistic.

While it would be a nice gesture, I see no reason for other teams to consent. It just seems wrong to give a team special dispensation because they screwed up.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:31 am

bhallg2k wrote:
Oskari Saari wrote:Lotus just confirmed to me that the team is seeking permission from other teams to use 3 days they wont drive in BCN in a private test.

That seems a bit optimistic.

While it would be a nice gesture, I see no reason for other teams to consent. It just seems wrong to give a team special dispensation because they screwed up.



Mercedes got day extra at Barcelona due to skipping Jerez last day,

don't see what the problem would be if Lotus stayed one to two days extra next week.
bosanac1
 
Joined: 25 Jan 2007

Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:31 am

Speaking of that, how was Mercedes able to have private test without asking other teams for permission?
mith
 
Joined: 2 Feb 2010
Location: Wrocław, Poland

Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:37 am

mith wrote:Speaking of that, how was Mercedes able to have private test without asking other teams for permission?


not sure how they got permission but this quote suggests that any skipped test can be made up


"The new car has already shaken down the car at Silverstone last week, and conducted a private test at Catalunya on Sunday - which Mercedes was permitted to undertake because it had only been present for three of the four days of running at Jerez earlier this month."
bosanac1
 
Joined: 25 Jan 2007

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