A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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PlatinumZealot
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A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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In 3D driving is like regular driving but in addition there the active suspension is controlled by the driver. The driver now has direct control over not just the movement of the car across the horizontal plane but the vertical plane.

Driver controls:
Accelerator Pedal
Brake Pedal
Steering
Assorted buttons and knobs as typical

LIVESuspension control
The steering wheel has two halves, each half can rotate around an axis perpendicular to the steering coloumn.
Left suspension stiffness - by twisting the left side of the wheel forward
Right suspension stiffnes - by twisting the right of of the wheel forward

Twisting wheel
Image
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pierce89
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Re: F1 3D driving.

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Ehh?
โ€œTo be able to actually make something is awfully niceโ€
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DaveKillens
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Re: F1 3D driving.

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Is this a real life application for some car, or just speculation?

Wouldn't the possibility of a mistake as well as the ergonomics be a nightmare? I don't like the idea of a driver in a close and hard fight entering a tight left hander, his arms are almost crossed, and then he has to rotate his wrist?

Active suspensions are banned in Formula One, as well, you don't need a man in the loop for it to work. And if you decide to go with active suspension activated for corners, why not just use forward velocity and wheel position readings to do the input?
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: F1 3D driving.

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Let me edit the topic. I made the post late in the night....
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: F1 3D driving.

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DaveKillens wrote:Is this a real life application for some car, or just speculation?

Wouldn't the possibility of a mistake as well as the ergonomics be a nightmare? I don't like the idea of a driver in a close and hard fight entering a tight left hander, his arms are almost crossed, and then he has to rotate his wrist?

Active suspensions are banned in Formula One, as well, you don't need a man in the loop for it to work. And if you decide to go with active suspension activated for corners, why not just use forward velocity and wheel position readings to do the input?
I was thinking of a slight twist with hard resistance like a brake pedal. Just a few degrees. MotoGP riders have to twist their wrists too, although I must admit the positioning is different.
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flynfrog
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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I think my question is why

A few $100 micro controller could do the job 1000X faster than a human could anyway.

rjsa
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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flynfrog wrote:I think my question is why

A few $100 micro controller could do the job 1000X faster than a human could anyway.

It in fact did in the years of the active suspensions. But this would be a driver actuated mechanism, which is interesting.

Jersey Tom
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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Driver-actuated could cause more harm than good.
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Tim.Wright
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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I don't see the point either... There are easier ways to slow the car down than a complicated system like this.

Its definately thinking laterally, but what exactly is the problem you are trying to solve? Anyway, why on earth would you want to control the left and right stiffness for?

There are a lot of series where the driver has access to an adjustable anti-roll bar to change front and rear roll stiffness. Which would be infinitely more useful, but even then its only used every now and then to fix general balace problems.
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flynfrog
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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rjsa wrote:
flynfrog wrote:I think my question is why

A few $100 micro controller could do the job 1000X faster than a human could anyway.

It in fact did in the years of the active suspensions. But this would be a driver actuated mechanism, which is interesting.
why not let him trim the separate wing planes at the same time or is that not interesting either?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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Tim.Wright wrote:I don't see the point either... There are easier ways to slow the car down than a complicated system like this.

Its definately thinking laterally, but what exactly is the problem you are trying to solve? Anyway, why on earth would you want to control the left and right stiffness for?

There are a lot of series where the driver has access to an adjustable anti-roll bar to change front and rear roll stiffness. Which would be infinitely more useful, but even then its only used every now and then to fix general balace problems.
The driver has complete freedom to adjust the suspension stiffness in reaction to what he feels at any point in time for any duration. It is similar to active damping on road cars except 100% the control is from the driver.

The system can be ignored by the driver, but when it is used it opens up a higher capability of car performance - if the driver is skilled enough to access it. Its there is the driver wants.
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Greg Locock
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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You seem to be muddling 2 things

1) what is the best way for the driver to operate additional controls while driving with both hands on the wheel, and you are proposing some sort of joystick functionality in the rim of the wheel.


2) what would you control mid corner? you are proposing stifffening the suspension up one side or the other (a bizarre choice in my view, but what the hell)

I'd unmuddle those two before discussing further

Lycoming
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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aside from having the ability to control another thing (which is not inherently an advantage), what benefit would it bring to change spring rates (or even damper settings) mid corner? how would that in any way let you corner faster or even just "better"?

bill shoe
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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I kind of like the idea of a driver controlling the suspension. Who says susension must be out of the driver's control, but diff control, shifting, etc., should be under driver control? I think a lot of it is due to tradition rather than a logical premise of how a professional driver should control the car in competition with other drivers.

That's maybe the easy part. The hard part is exactly what should they control about the suspension. This is where the lack of a tradition makes it difficult. Maybe something like the weight shifting of a motorcycle rider but actuated via the steering wheel controls.

Greg Locock
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Re: A new way to drive an F1 car? "3D driving"

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Here's a list of things you could usefully fiddle with during a corner

1) brake balance

2) fiddle brakes

3) diff vectoring

4) aero

5)sta bar ratio

Whichever you choose I suspect you end up eating Armco more often than not.

As to the control side, how about twist grips on the steering wheel, or brake levers like on a pushbike?