MotoGP Aero.....

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J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: MotoGP Aero.....

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1st 2016 race at Qatar showed several developmental changes.. as visible on TV..

Ducati now has bi-level winglets, with a set in in the nose - similar to Lorenzo's Yamaha, as well as in the previous location..

Lorenzo's Yamaha featured extended area 'moustache' strakes, angled down.. while Rossi's went without those..
..but had long strakes running laterally back across the fairing sides instead..

Even M.M.'s Honda has sprouted a small set of extended mount strakes ~1/2 way down the front of the fairing..

The Suzukis still appeared bare, oddly enough, given their history with such devices..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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mycadcae
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Joined: 10 Jan 2010, 16:49
Location: Selangor Malaysia

Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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“Last year when we came out with the winglets everybody was laughing... Now nearly everybody is using them”
Read more at

Ducati does not expect MotoGP to clamp down on the use of aerodynamic winglets.

The Italian factory debuted the latest generation of winglet technology one-year ago in Qatar, followed by several evolutions throughout the season.

Yamaha unveiled its version in September, with Honda also experimenting with the devices during 2016 pre-season testing.

However some riders have expressed safety concerns due to the risk of a 'slicing' injury, plus the unsettling turbulence created for following riders.

As such, there are rumours that winglets could be banned at the end of this season.

“No, I don't think so,” Ducati Corse sporting director Paolo Ciabatti said in Qatar, before Tuesday's announcement that wings are to be banned in the Moto2 and Moto3 classes.

“Last year when we came out with the winglets here everybody was laughing. Halfway through the season somebody [else] started to use them. Now nearly everybody is using them.

“So I think Ducati was the first manufacturer to understand that working a little bit more on the aerodynamics, and using also the possibility of winglets to reduce the wheelie and so on, is useful.

“Obviously some riders may complain, but all manufacturers will have it in the end. I think it is just an evolution of this sport and Ducati was the pioneer in this, I can only say that.”

Both factory Ducati riders were fighting for victory in Sunday's Qatar season-opener, with Andrea Dovizioso claiming second.

source crash.net
Regard,
Nik Wan, Mechanical Designer, CATIA V5/ Solidworks/Autodesk Inventor/ AutoCAD

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mycadcae
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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Regard,
Nik Wan, Mechanical Designer, CATIA V5/ Solidworks/Autodesk Inventor/ AutoCAD

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bdr529
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Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 19:49
Location: Canada

Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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mycadcae wrote:http://media.crash.net/original/PA1857239.0008.jpg
“Last year when we came out with the winglets everybody was laughing... Now nearly everybody is using them”
Read more at
Ducati does not expect MotoGP to clamp down on the use of aerodynamic winglets.
source crash.net
Thanks for posting this article mycadcae, some good info and some new photos there
by the way we do have a thread already on the go MotoGP Aero.... http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=23820

Perhaps the moderators could include this page in the other topic

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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Did they melt the tip of the endplate to reduce vortices? The aerodynamicist behind this masterpiece should be in Formula one?

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LVDH
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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What I do not get is how they work when cornering.
Image
Mounting them upside-down could help to get beneficial side forces.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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LVDH wrote:What I do not get is how they work when cornering.
http://mantiumcae.com/wp-content/upload ... ectors.png
Mounting them upside-down could help to get beneficial side forces.
How they work in corners? Probably not. Low speed corners, where you are really on the edge of the lean angle, it's not a problem, the winglets won't work then. At high speed corners, with medium angles you'll get more pressure on the front wheel, which it can handle. The big advantage is accelerating. Because of the high COG, a MotoGP bike can't do a lot more then 1G. Any means they can get the COG forward of down, without compromising (slow) corners too much, it an instant gain.

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dodds_turbo
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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Just watched Race 1 highlights last night, there was talk of a census still being taken by the teams regarding banning these next season.

Also a little talk about how the winglets seem to 'steal' downforce from bikes nearby. I'm no aero expert, can anybody explain how airflow/downforce could be 'sucked away' from nearby bikes?

I also thought the winglets could be a hazard when the bikes are leaning over at maximum angle. Could the winglets touch ground and cause the bike to spin out?

nacho
nacho
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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I think the outer side creates a force perpendicular to ground, the inner one is angled such that it stop working when cornering? When cornering the front of the bike is at an angle to the direction of travel.

Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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LVDH wrote:What I do not get is how they work when cornering.
http://mantiumcae.com/wp-content/upload ... ectors.png
Mounting them upside-down could help to get beneficial side forces.
The rider is normally hanging off on the inside of the bike during the lean which probably has quite a dramatic adverse effect on the wing performance, so the force vector being in the wrong direction for a performance advantage is potentially mitigated. That's just speculation on my part though.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Re: MotoGP Aero.....

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Latest scuttlebutt reckons that FIM is seeking to ban the add-on fairing winglets/strakes in Moto GP,
..having already done so, or flagged doing so - for the lesser Moto 2/3 categories..

But they are apparently loathe to make further technical reg's changes during the season..
..unless it has been proven to be an actual safety issue..

Some riders have complained about slipstream instability.. when tucked in behind,
& re: the concern of added crash injuries possible - due to contact with the projecting aero-devices..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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bdr529
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Location: Canada

Re: MotoGP Aero.....

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I know Crutchlow brought up the safety aspect of them in Quatar
“Half of me wants to say nothing, because maybe we need them – if they work!” quipped Crutchlow.
“But imagine if that sliced someone's leg clean open?"
http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/r ... 80218/?s=1

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bdr529
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Re: MotoGP Aero.....

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There was an article a couple of weeks ago in Cycle World giving some more insight
on the effectiveness of the winglets, and just how much downforce they could provide
How much force? Aircraft wing loadings give a clue, being in the range of 25 to 70 pounds per square foot in a range of 140 to 200 mph, and lift varies as the square of speed. Efficient wings are shaped like a foot ruler, with a lot of length in relation to the inefficient tips. At the wingtip, air from the high pressure side can flow around to the low-pressure side, negating some lift. Some of the winglets we’ve seen have tip fences to limit this spillage, but even so, let’s estimate the force-generating potential of these winglets as 25 pounds per square foot at 120 mph. Honda’s two “wing collar” winglets perhaps total 10 square inches, or about .07 square foot. That suggests maybe two pounds of downforce. If Ducati’s have seven times that area, we could estimate 14 pounds of downforce at 120 mph, 3 to 4 pounds at 60 mph, and at top speed (217 mph on some circuits) 45 pounds.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2016/03/07/mo ... -insights/

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VARIANT | one
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Re: Ducati: MotoGP winglets here to stay

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I read somewhere that they may be intended to disrupt the wake behind the Ducs and make it harder for following riders trying to slipstream/draft.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: MotoGP Aero.....

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For the Moto GP Argentina, Ducati deleted the lower set of winglets, retaining only the 'moustache' units..
..which also seemed to feature a 'snap-off' capability,.. since Iannone 1stly pinged one off running into M.M.
& then again later, from the spare bike, - after crashing with his own team-mate..

Lorenzo's Yamaha also prompty shed its projecting strake like-wise, when he slid off the track, ( Rossi ran a bare fairing on his)..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).