End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

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Facts Only
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End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Facts Only » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:10 pm

So we have come to the end of the current rules era (V6T in Narrow cars). Its been short at only 3 seasons but we have seen some massive technical achievements so thought it might be good to have a topic discussing the era as a hole.

A few talkings points from the top of my head:

1) Can only be the PU's, we went from unloved 'taxi-cab' engines (in some peoples eyes) to near 1000bhp monsters in 3 years. The technical challenges have been imense and the talking and speculation endless. Personally I have loved the PU's and look forward to what they will be like in 2020 (final iteration)

2) Looks, the grid seemed to go from a collection of real ugly f*ckers in 2014 (except the Merc) to what I think is one of the nicest collections of cars I can remember. Some nice variation on the theme and some lovely cars, personally I think the 2016 FIF1 is a really striking car, the W07 is just totally wonderful and the RB has one of the best pain schemes ever.

3) FRIC suspension came and went and came and went and sort of came again?

4) All sorts of other things, S-Ducts, Blown axles, Suspension Blockers, Bobs Knobs. HAAS Came, Cateham Went, Sauber went into free fall. Williams surged and then faded, FIF1 moved up. Renault back.

I think the biggest downer was Merc's utter dominance combined with everyone (RB, Bernie and Ferraris) petulant whining. It brought a cloud over the whole thing.

I think the time is right for a change now but interested to hear what people think of the last 3 years.
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Formula Wrong
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Formula Wrong » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:01 pm

Facts Only wrote: 1) Can only be the PU's, we went from unloved 'taxi-cab' engines (in some peoples eyes) to near 1000bhp monsters in 3 years. The technical challenges have been imense and the talking and speculation endless. Personally I have loved the PU's and look forward to what they will be like in 2020 (final iteration)
I do like the PUs, too! At the start of 2014 they sounded all new (and yes, in comparison to the screaming V8 or V10 engines, not well) but I think it it got better over time - and no, I didn't just get used to the sound, I genuinely like it!
Facts Only wrote: I think the biggest downer was Merc's utter dominance combined with everyone (RB, Bernie and Ferraris) petulant whining. It brought a cloud over the whole thing.
That's very true. However, despite the dominance by Mercedes, I think that especially 2014 and 2016 were very good years in terms of the championship - in both, the season finale was the title decider, and both years and their dramatic championship moments :mrgreen: We may have had one dominating team, but at least there were two drivers who had realistic chances for the title (unlike 2013 were at least since Spa everything was about Vettel). The constant whining and complaining certainly has made F1 look worse than it actually is.
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Holm86
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Holm86 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:09 pm

Facts Only wrote:So we have come to the end of the current rules era (V6T in Narrow cars). Its been short at only 3 seasons but we have seen some massive technical achievements so thought it might be good to have a topic discussing the era as a hole.

A few talkings points from the top of my head:

1) Can only be the PU's, we went from unloved 'taxi-cab' engines (in some peoples eyes) to near 1000bhp monsters in 3 years. The technical challenges have been imense and the talking and speculation endless. Personally I have loved the PU's and look forward to what they will be like in 2020 (final iteration)

2) Looks, the grid seemed to go from a collection of real ugly f*ckers in 2014 (except the Merc) to what I think is one of the nicest collections of cars I can remember. Some nice variation on the theme and some lovely cars, personally I think the 2016 FIF1 is a really striking car, the W07 is just totally wonderful and the RB has one of the best pain schemes ever.

3) FRIC suspension came and went and came and went and sort of came again?

4) All sorts of other things, S-Ducts, Blown axles, Suspension Blockers, Bobs Knobs. HAAS Came, Cateham Went, Sauber went into free fall. Williams surged and then faded, FIF1 moved up. Renault back.

I think the biggest downer was Merc's utter dominance combined with everyone (RB, Bernie and Ferraris) petulant whining. It brought a cloud over the whole thing.

I think the time is right for a change now but interested to hear what people think of the last 3 years.
I don't really understand your timeframe? You talk about 3 years, but that's only the engines. The current aero regulations was introduced in 09, 7 years ago albeit there has been modifications to the regulations throughout the years. And the "narrow car era" startet back in 1998. Next year we get new aero regulations, so that ends the current era of 7 years, and we get wider cars, which ends the narrow car era of 18 years. The V6T engine era has only been for 3 years, and it continues next season.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:09 pm

I was going to talk about one specific aspect, but realized this was going to be too negative, so I will add equally a positive side in equal length and depth.

First the bad side: On track it has not been bad at all, but off the track F1 has been a huge mess, with a lack of solid leadership giving clear direction to the sport. Onus here is the FIA selling 2/3 of its decision making rights for a measel 40 million a year. The structure that came in place has been showed to be unable to work unanimous. Several instances like 2015 inseason debacle, a customer V6 double turbo being put on the table before being whiped off, a ban and unban on communications, debacles about circuit limits,... . The worst of all is that the FIA openly and shameless complained it can't push through rules anymore, knowing very well they signed the paper themselves that led to this situation. All of this at a time when several teams were in problems. It is frankly a miracle we only have lost Caterham, as both Lotus and Sauber were one foot in their grave, and Manor miraculous rising back out of it.

On the flipside, racing has not been that bad. Also even though the championship was dominated by one team, the 2 drivers were matched enough to keep tension. The controversy and emotions they generated also did bring back fond memories of other legends like Prost and Senna. Like Facts Only said, the development of these technological marvels called PUs has been marvelous. I'm not quite sure we should believe they already got to +1000bhp, but they are realistically speaking closing in. Giving this has to be done with a fixed max fuel flow and 100kg of fuel, this is how F1 should look like: a technological prototype giving answers to nowaday's daily issues which demand efficiency.
Even though I would decision making was very horrible in this 'era', I would say they made surprisingly mature decisions on next year's cars.

@Holm86: I think you have to see era is a timeline defined by both the beginning and end marked with significant technical rule changes. I think you can say that of the last 3 years.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by TAG » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:16 pm

Facts Only wrote:1) Can only be the PU's, we went from unloved 'taxi-cab' engines (in some peoples eyes) to near 1000bhp monsters in 3 years. The technical challenges have been imense and the talking and speculation endless. Personally I have loved the PU's and look forward to what they will be like in 2020 (final iteration)
Don't forget 100bhp monsters consuming nearly 50% less fuel. The advancement in both ICE efficiency and energy recovery has been staggering and IMO why F1 remains as the most important form of motor sports in the world.
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santos
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by santos » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:20 pm

Well i'm not going to lie. My favorite time at F1 was in middle 2000's. The last years from the V10's and the first from the V8's. There was good batles and there wasn't so much people whining. The cars looked way better then today. 2009 came and the cars become super ugly or at least they were kind of strange.
I love motor sports and althought i loved the sound of the V10's, the sound never was the most important thing in F1. I hope they keep this ICE for many years and from now on, only try to make them more efficient and develop all the rest of the PU.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by WaikeCU » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:31 pm

I thought the technical changes for 2014 were too complicated and too critical to be introduced. If it's one thing that defines a car, it's the power unit and that's what has been overhauled for 2014. Combine that with the testing restrictions and the result is that most of the teams can't figure out to make it work by the start of the season. If that had happened in the 90's, things might have been different, because cars can massively change performance wise in a fortnight. Test restrictions, it's a real killer.

Now for 2017, I believe changes are only in dimensions of car width, wings and tires. Those are the biggest changes. The good thing is that the power unit doesn't need to be overhauled.
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Sevach » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:39 pm

Introducing new rules with a development freeze in place like 2014 was a huge mistake, that improved in subsequent years, and now we are getting it as it should be.

Innitially i wasn't onboard with the idea of a car that has 800 horses on some parts of the track, and 640 on the rest, that sounded awful to me, but in the way it's actually implemented MGU-H suplementing it, it works.
Sounds... i'm used to it, but wouldn't say no to a big naturally aspirated sound.

Aero rules pretty restrictive, i think there was no silver bullet in these 3 years, and most of the "innovations" like S-Ducts and Blown Axles were already present in the late V8 era.

hemichromis
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by hemichromis » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:58 pm

I actually prefer the sound of the 2016 engines to the V8s from a few years ago. I think the V8s always sounded thin, screaming too much.

I'd also like to mention though it might be off topic.
The 3 tyre choice per race has really improved racing, giving a few more possibilities in race.

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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:24 pm

The PU's are respectable in their own right, but not impressive as a spectacle.
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FW17
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by FW17 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:36 pm

The topic should have added: Unsightly long cars

I guess that is not going to change but current cars are just too long. 500 mm too long.

rich1701
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by rich1701 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

I don't like the PU's simply because of their sound. they kind of remind me of an old soprano singing with a very bad cold. I've been going to GP's all my life, i remember the first time Mika Hakkinen drove past me in the mp4/15 and it absolutely blew my socks off, it was mind blowing. and sadly I don't think the specticle will be like that again. :roll:

The cars will look better next year according to people in the know so that is something to look forward to. The wider tyres are something to love, they are exotic and unapologetically striking which is exactly what f1 should be IMO. I'm so thankful they didnt opt for these these silly little 17" rims, they are are not needed, and there is plenty of other formulae which cater for that development side of things.

As for Mercedes dominance, it would be sensible to consider that through the years F1 almost always has a dominant team and I would argue the sport has suffered more than benefited from attempts in the past to "shake things up" by reacting to that. 2017 however gives me a postitive vibe.

Just_a_fan
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:14 pm

Holm86 wrote:
Facts Only wrote:So we have come to the end of the current rules era (V6T in Narrow cars).
I don't really understand your timeframe? You talk about 3 years, but that's only the engines. The current aero regulations was introduced in 09, 7 years ago albeit there has been modifications to the regulations throughout the years. And the "narrow car era" startet back in 1998. Next year we get new aero regulations, so that ends the current era of 7 years, and we get wider cars, which ends the narrow car era of 18 years. The V6T engine era has only been for 3 years, and it continues next season.
He says "V6T in narrow cars". That's 3 years. This combination of engine and chassis is 3 years. They overlap for 3 years.

Next year is "fat V6T" but we're ending 3 years of "narrow V6T". 3 years. That's the timeframe. 3 years.





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Facts Only
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Facts Only » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:15 pm

I've been trying to think what moment best summed up the era, for me its definitely Bahrain 2014 after the restart. Lewis and Nico fighting hard and letting the W05 off the leash, they left the rest of the pack for dead showing what the car could really do.
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by ME4ME » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:46 pm

Facts Only wrote:I've been trying to think what moment best summed up the era, for me its definitely Bahrain 2014 after the restart. Lewis and Nico fighting hard and letting the W05 off the leash, they left the rest of the pack for dead showing what the car could really do.
How is that representitive of 14-15-16? Most of the time, the car was on the leash.