Silly Season 2017/2018

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Shakeman
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Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 13:31
Location: UK

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 19:30
Alonso is a flawed genius. A magician behind the wheel but very petulant and poorly advised in the grand scheme of things. Yes he was five years with Ferrari, but how could he not see that Ferrari is the only other team that can challenge for the win in these regulations?
But Alonso would have been privy to the warring factions and disorganisation in Ferrari during his period there and it's only with 20/20 hindsight that leaving Ferrari has shown to be the wrong move. At the time I suspect he concluded these clowns never have a chance at being at the front again so I'm better off out.... and Ron is a hell of a salesman too.

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FrukostScones
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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So now it HAM to Ferrari. I teresting.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Actually, there's speculation there for over a year already, especially after the Rosberg clash.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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djos wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 10:02
PlatinumZealot wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 02:41
Perez to Ferrari. Bottas can step up and compete with the best so can Checo.
Doubt it, Perez has already shown conclusively he can't handle the pressure of driving for a top team back in the Maclaren Mercedes days.
People can learn from their mistakes and become more mature persons. Why not Perez?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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djos wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 10:02
PlatinumZealot wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 02:41
Perez to Ferrari. Bottas can step up and compete with the best so can Checo.
Doubt it, Perez has already shown conclusively he can't handle the pressure of driving for a top team back in the Maclaren Mercedes days.
The pressure at McLaren was one factor, but also how he was treated was another. I think he has learned from that and is a much stronger driver and is now strong leader. I can see Perez leading Ferrari in the future.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 20:09
djos wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 10:02
PlatinumZealot wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 02:41
Perez to Ferrari. Bottas can step up and compete with the best so can Checo.
Doubt it, Perez has already shown conclusively he can't handle the pressure of driving for a top team back in the Maclaren Mercedes days.
The pressure at McLaren was one factor, but also how he was treated was another. I think he has learned from that and is a much stronger driver and is now strong leader. I can see Perez leading Ferrari in the future.
Still that completely uncalled for false accusation that he couldn't handle the pressure of Mclaren.

2013 Championship Results:

Jenson Button - 73 points
Sergio Perez - 49 points

that's only 24 points less during his maiden year with topteam Mclaren.

Best result of JB: 5th.
Best result of Perez: 5th.

Worst result of JB: 17th. reason: wheel damage. DNF
Worst result of Perez: 20th. reason: puncture damage. DNF

Perez had in total 8 outside-top ten finishes [including 2 DNF's due to damage].
JB had in total 5 outside-top ten finishes [including 1 DNF's due to damage].

that means essentially a difference of 4 non-points scoring finishes for JB vs 6 non-points scoring finishes for Perez.

We're talking about a full rookie back then versus a vastly experienced world driver champion,
who was catapulted into the seat to fill the shoes of sudden exited Hamilton. Talk about pressure.
And frankly, he showed some great moves.

He only finished 2 points short of beating Hulkenberg in the WDC which would have seen him sit right behind JB.

He helped Mclaren get P5 in the constructors championship, almost 200 points behind Lotus/Renault. Not even Lewis Hamilton would have managed to bring enough points to beat them to that.

whoopdiedoo.

Perez did not crack at all under the pressure. He stood his ground but was treated seriously uncalled for and bad.
The ONLY reason he got the boot was because somebody - if i recall right it was Whitmarsh - screwed up so bad that they had to give Magnussen a seat, and obviously, ditchen JB for Magnussen would have made an already bad situation even worse.

Magnussen then out of pure luck and changing conditions had the luck of getting P2 in the first race, but showed complete disgrace and incompetence for the rest of the season, it was embarassing. HE crumbled and cracked under the pressure - he even admitted so recently - NOT perez.

JB's points total for 2014: 126
Mag's points total for 2014: 55. FAR LESS THAN HALF of his teammate.

JB finished 8th in the WDC,
Magnussen 11th - behind a degraded Perez at Force India.

Mclaren that year came only 35 points short of beating Ferrari in the WCC.
JB had a total of 71 points MORE than Magnussen, compared to Perez 24 the year before.
I'm sure he would have had better results in 2014 after adapting a full year and no insane stress put on him,
but even then still, if the 2nd driver at Mclaren in 2014 hauled in 91 points total, still 37 points less than JB,
i am positive Perez would have managed that, then they would have been P4 in the WCC.
One might even ponder on whether Mclaren might have hauled in a sponsor earlier, perhaps already in 2014, with Perez still there, especially since he was backed by a very powerful telecom magnate, the then-richest iirc or one of the richest businessmen in the world Carlos Slim through TelMex, Claro, etc.
Mclaren now is still without a title sponsor. go figure.

The good thing for Perez though is that it didn't turn out bad for him at all, actually. He has been spared the dog of a Honda engine at Mclaren, and Force India is a fast and great team where he could show his potential, and they're doing much better now than Mclaren.

But as for getting cracked or snowed under?
No, Perez never was snowed under.

Magnussen was,
and for that matter, Stoffel Vandoorne gets snowed under completely too, despite the claims he's such a big deal.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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dren
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Palmer gets the boot for Kubica.
Sainz and Kyviat both get the boot. Two new faces there.
Massa retires for good and somebody new shows up at Williams.
The rest stays the same.
Honda!

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 20:09
djos wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 10:02
PlatinumZealot wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 02:41
Perez to Ferrari. Bottas can step up and compete with the best so can Checo.
Doubt it, Perez has already shown conclusively he can't handle the pressure of driving for a top team back in the Maclaren Mercedes days.
The pressure at McLaren was one factor, but also how he was treated was another. I think he has learned from that and is a much stronger driver and is now strong leader. I can see Perez leading Ferrari in the future.
Results are one part of it, on track he was lack luster and timid imo. He got given a great opportunity and didn't make the most of it.

And for those Claiming he was a rookie, that's b.s. Perez had 2 very solid seasons under his belt before joining McLaren!
"In downforce we trust"

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Even in his first years at Force India, Perez was behaving like stereotype Latin hothead driver, too agressive, getting into top much trouble. But he has matured, delivering solid every weekend. Comperable to Hulkenburg and looking much better the rookie Ocon this year.

Nickel
Nickel
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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NL_Fer wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 00:20
...and looking much better the rookie Ocon this year.
Agree to disagree. Imo he's looking a bit flustered by the rookie' s very comparable pace and results. I certainly wouldn't say "much better". He's beating him, but it's very close and not making him look fantastic. If I were driver shopping, I'd be taking a good hard look at Ocon.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Speed is what most rookies have, it took them to F1. Maturing is about knowing the setup of the car to bo both fast and save tyres during the race. Stay out of trouble during the start, battling another driver, without putting both i the wall. Take the care home and score points.

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SteveRacer
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Joined: 20 Mar 2014, 01:13

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Nickel wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 00:34
NL_Fer wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 00:20
...and looking much better the rookie Ocon this year.
Agree to disagree. Imo he's looking a bit flustered by the rookie' s very comparable pace and results. I certainly wouldn't say "much better". He's beating him, but it's very close and not making him look fantastic. If I were driver shopping, I'd be taking a good hard look at Ocon.
I fully agree with this

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Nickel wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 00:34
NL_Fer wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 00:20
...and looking much better the rookie Ocon this year.
Agree to disagree. Imo he's looking a bit flustered by the rookie' s very comparable pace and results. I certainly wouldn't say "much better". He's beating him, but it's very close and not making him look fantastic. If I were driver shopping, I'd be taking a good hard look at Ocon.
Perez is faultless this year. Ocon hasn't been. In fact Ocon has been the hot head . Not saying anything is wrong with that for a softmore. But Perez is still the guy you want in your seat. Money. Speed. Safe pair of hands. Good overtaking and He can make strategy work.
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Gerhardsa
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Location: Canada 'eh!

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 20:09
djos wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 10:02
PlatinumZealot wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 02:41
Perez to Ferrari. Bottas can step up and compete with the best so can Checo.
Doubt it, Perez has already shown conclusively he can't handle the pressure of driving for a top team back in the Maclaren Mercedes days.
The pressure at McLaren was one factor, but also how he was treated was another. I think he has learned from that and is a much stronger driver and is now strong leader. I can see Perez leading Ferrari in the future.
Yeah, I don't think so. Not while there are guys like Ricciardo and Verstappen in the Paddock for the next 8-12 years. Certainly at least one of them are destined to be the Ferrari main man soon, and for the foreseeable future, heck, maybe even both of them. Doubt Perez would be able to compete with either of them in the same car. He would just become Rubens 2.0 in my opinion

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Vasconia
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Location: Basque Country

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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SteveRacer wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 03:53
Nickel wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 00:34
NL_Fer wrote:
19 Jul 2017, 00:20
...and looking much better the rookie Ocon this year.
Agree to disagree. Imo he's looking a bit flustered by the rookie' s very comparable pace and results. I certainly wouldn't say "much better". He's beating him, but it's very close and not making him look fantastic. If I were driver shopping, I'd be taking a good hard look at Ocon.
I fully agree with this
Perez has been more regular while Ocon has made some mistakes, but its normal and he is improving rapidly. I guess Perez is suprised with Ocon´s performance. FI has right now two great drivers.