HALO Approved for 2018

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roon
roon
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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A summary of the two opposing camps, for those who haven't picked a side to bicker over yet.

Option 1: When a tire passes 0,5 m from a driver's helmet, this automatically kills the driver.

Option 2: When a tire passes 0,5 m from a driver's helmet, this represents the absolute minimum distance that a tire could ever henceforth arrive in proximity to a driver's helmet, in all future scenarios, within all possible universes, forever.

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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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It's not just my opinion. Earlier today Verstappen said that while it was close , it would not have hit Leclerc.
I might tend to agree more with Alonso that it's better to be wrong and have it then to be wrong the other way and have a disaster, if people weren't so hyperbolic about it. People need to calm down and take a deep breath.
Nice job of summing it up roon. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

roon
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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Image

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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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So much for the effectiveness of the HALO....
“Before that at Turn 1 I think Daniel [Ricciardo] lost a piece of carbon that went straight into my visor. This was really, really scary because I thought it was going through and straight in my eye, but it hit my visor and fell in the cockpit, so in Turn 4 I had to take the carbon piece and throw it from the cockpit.Gasly says his bigger fear was the moment he saw a piece of carbon fibre was going to hit his helmet.

“I need to check [the helmet] because I didn’t check after the race. But just at the time I had 0.5s to see it flying and hitting the visor. It was like a winglet that maybe came from somewhere from contact with Daniel, but it came like pointing towards me and straight at my right eye.

“When I saw it coming I thought ‘F**k it’s going through the visor’, but the visor is really strong because it just hit it and fell into the cockpit.

“It’s going super-fast but still I had time to have all these thoughts and see it coming. So in these kind of moments you’re processing it quite fast.”
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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FFS, no one ever claimed the halo would stop everything. It's designed to stop big stuff like entire wheel assemblies or cars themselves, not small bit of CF.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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jjn9128
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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Just_a_fan wrote:
01 Oct 2018, 22:29
FFS, no one ever claimed the halo would stop everything. It's designed to stop big stuff like entire wheel assemblies or cars themselves, not small bit of CF.
I was waiting for this thread to be reignited :lol:

Halo is designed to stop big debris - and cars as we saw in Spa - while the helmet and visor are spec'd to cope with smaller debris. The 2019 helmet and visor will be even better!
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Jolle
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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jjn9128 wrote:
01 Oct 2018, 22:49
Just_a_fan wrote:
01 Oct 2018, 22:29
FFS, no one ever claimed the halo would stop everything. It's designed to stop big stuff like entire wheel assemblies or cars themselves, not small bit of CF.
I was waiting for this thread to be reignited :lol:

Halo is designed to stop big debris - and cars as we saw in Spa - while the helmet and visor are spec'd to cope with smaller debris. The 2019 helmet and visor will be even better!
and don't forget the tear resistant rules for suits.

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Big Tea
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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Seems his visor did the job then?
Whats the story other than things are OK
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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Just_a_fan wrote:
01 Oct 2018, 22:29
FFS, no one ever claimed the halo would stop everything. It's designed to stop big stuff like entire wheel assemblies or cars themselves, not small bit of CF.
Funny!
We were told it would stop small springs and junk off the road. Not cars and big stuff.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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strad wrote:
02 Oct 2018, 00:03
Just_a_fan wrote:
01 Oct 2018, 22:29
FFS, no one ever claimed the halo would stop everything. It's designed to stop big stuff like entire wheel assemblies or cars themselves, not small bit of CF.
Funny!
We were told it would stop small springs and junk off the road. Not cars and big stuff.
When and where? The official FIA press video was very clear that its for whole cars, big chunks of car or stuff like rolling on top of a barrier. Small debris had online a 15% or so less chance of impact. They even got Massa’s incident where there was states minimal change in outcome. They introduced even better helmet designs for those kind of accidents with the second upgrade since Massa coming in ‘19.

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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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The thing was instituted after Massa's incident.
Roll hoops are to stop Spa type incidents and wheel tethers are SUPPOSED stop wheels coming off.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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strad wrote:
02 Oct 2018, 00:16
The thing was instituted after Massa's incident.
Roll hoops are to stop Spa type incidents and wheel tethers are SUPPOSED stop wheels coming off.
You are misinformed and drawing your own conclusions. Re-watch the piece that the FIA brought out. There were multiple incidents that had teams and drivers demand more cockpit protection.

https://youtu.be/AYkGjUHstKY

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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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I'm not about to search out old articles but they were based on needing to protect Massa.
My point actually was that F1 should have gone the route of IndyCar with a clear shield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAN59VLV_Ww
https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news ... 5/1389833/
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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strad wrote:
02 Oct 2018, 00:35
I'm not about to search out old articles but they were based on needing to protect Massa.
My point actually was that F1 should have gone the route of IndyCar with a clear shield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAN59VLV_Ww
https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news ... 5/1389833/
The US windscreen will stop a bit of CF, it won't stop a full wheel assembly (which still come off in the biggest accidents) and it won't stop a car (or major part thereof).

The roll hoop is there for, surprisingly, a roll over situation. It's not intended to stop a car that's riding up the nose in a submarining style accident.

Really, we know you hate the halo but at least know what you're arguing about.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

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Frye said that IndyCar had been consulting with the armed forces about materials used in military applications such as the canopies of Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets,
More significant is Lowe's assertion that the intention of the Halo is to deflect chunks of debris rather than the wayward spring that struck Felipe Massa such a potentially devastating blow.
The Halo system’s ability to guard against large impactors adequately addresses the incidents that claimed the lives of Henry Surtees and Justin Wilson. However, it doesn’t address the small-object events such as Massa’s being struck by Barrichello’s spring. Light debris such as bits of klag or carbon can be safely deflected by the driver’s helmet, but larger, more massive objects such as a spring, a wheel nut, or a suspension member carry energies capable of overwhelming even modern helmet systems.
The Halo would have been minimally effective at preventing the spring that struck Massa from intruding on the cockpit. This is an area where the Shield system is substantially more effective.
Are there pros and cons to both systems?
Yes
Do you need to be insulting?
No
I still say the original idea was not for the HALO to fend off a flying car but a knee jerk reaction to Massa's incident.
While called a roll hoop, which it does quite well, the hoops purpose is to also fend off objects from above. Which it also has done quite well for ages. Can anything protect from every unexpected event? Certainly not.... not even the HALO.
Strength properties of the shield:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss