General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Snorked wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:35 pm
Honda Japan have vetoed Alonso driving their engine at Indy 😆

https://racer.com/2020/02/02/honda-veto ... -500-deal/
That is the right thing to do. Congratulations Honda.

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Capharol
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love this news
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

GhostF1
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Explains why Alonso out of the blue, on record, said he regretted the GP2 engine comment he made at the Japan GP, and he shouldn't of said it.

Probably trying to do everything he could to snag the Andretti Honda seat

Bill
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The Gp2 thing is ruse by media because it sounds salacious you can sell it to the public. The real reason Honda won't touch Fernando is because he is divisive he is the sole reason Mclaren dumped Honda he effectively blackmailed them either me or Honda, they choose him but Alonso being Alonso he didn't show loyalty and stick with them in tough times he dumped them and looking for another team to exploit.

Mercedes still remembers what happened in 2007 and Toto have made it clear that most of the blame lies with Alonso so if he has sweet dreams about returning to f1 the only choice is Renault.

restless
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LOL, Alonso the sole reason for McHonda divorce?! Some people just have no idea how important (or not) is a driver in F1 world
If anything, without the divorce, Honda would not be installed in Red Bull, not until 1y later, so 0 chances for 2020 championship.
looking back, what happened was best possible scenario for Honda.

Bill
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Drivers are important engineers are important all team members are important if Alonso is so "important " why is no longer dying to acquire his services including those Indy .Mclaren exclusive contract with Honda run out in 2017 so if anyone wanted their pu they would have got it Rbr wanted it since 2015 despite their problems they is a reason why Honda is based in Milton Keynes.

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Jambier
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It make no sense for Honda to be with Alonso.
Alonso is working, winning and ambassador for... Toyota. Why the hell should they work with him ?

Then of course there is the past when Alonso was crictisizing Honda (and he was right).

But the situation is like Verstappen wants one day to have a Renault engine car in whatever competition, it will not be possible

gshevlin
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Fernando Alonso is a great driver, but a lousy diplomat. He has always had a hot side to his personality that tends to surface at moments of frustration, when he says something obnoxious that dynamites bridges. The "this is a GP2 engine" comment during a race was one example.
If he was not working with Toyota Honda might have relented, but yes, I think this is another (very large) bridge that Fernando appears to have dynamited.

Bill
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Toyota Honda animus is a myth that gets over exaggerated in the real world they are partners. They work on advanced technology of tomorrow like driverless cars,solid state batteries, vehicles dynamics an area in which they lack behind their European peers.

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HPD
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Criticism can be beneficial or harmful.
I don't share the idea that Alonso criticisms helped Honda have a good engine.

Honda was ready to leave F1 in 2018 (search online). So they can't say the reviews helped because they did the opposite. And from the development of the engine, they would arrive sooner or later at a good level.
The people who saved the Honda F1 project were Franz Tost and Helmut Marko. Using the TR as a test car.

I think the same as @Jambier. The main problem is that Alonso is Toyota ambassador

Thunder18
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godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:46 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:32 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:16 am
The truth is that STR helped Honda overcome their hardships and hurdles using effective communication and teamwork. Nothing revisionist about that, unless you're anti-Japanese then you think anything Japanese say is revisionist.
That kind of low mentality has no place here.

I've already named the Honda staff that were crucial to Honda's turnaround. To achieve 3 wins+pole positions and 2 podiums with STR before McLaren is the reward Honda fans deserve.

Alonso's recent comments are self-serving, seeing he needs a good Honda engine in his Andretti car. He fully knows everyone on team radio heard his comments. He may think cutting ties with McLaren may pave the way to an Indy win but when you're known in Honda for insulting your employer on home turf and then go to their rival Toyota to ridealong for a win in Lemans, revisiting his GP2 comment is just opening an old wound.
If I were him I would be utmost respectful with humility. Racing in F1 and Indy500 is a privilege.
I he wins with Honda and apologizes again, will that heal the wounds? haha.
Alonso is a driver and they will say theses things. The important thing is that he did not disrespect the Honda Personnel themselves. I think we must separate the work from the artist (engineers in this case), as bad engine can be made even with great effort by good people.
That would be like insulting a child for not being good at a sport compared to an adult. When that child becomes an adult it's very possible with practice and dedication the child can grow to be better than the adult. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

This is how I viewed Honda's development.

In 2015 the Honda engine was a young kid, no muscle, many skills left to develop, but with a decent foundation.

2016 was pre-puberty things started changing, the muscles started coming in, still lacking skills and overall undeveloped and raw.

2017 the Honda hit puberty, changed to it's final form lots of teething issues, growing pains, skills improved.

2018 Honda started hitting it's stride turning into a young adult, more skills, teething issues solved.

2019 Honda came back making huge gains over the winter, they have their workout routine, they have more skills, more knowledge, the body is fully developed(the two bases in Sakura and MK, full collaboration with RBR).

2020 Honda is now full adult, fully trained professional athlete.
I think everyone forgets the token system that hindered any real progress that could be made in the early days. Remember Honda wanted to wait a further year before re-entering the sport but was convinced by McLaren not to wait...

Datco
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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HPD wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:34 pm
Criticism can be beneficial or harmful.
I don't share the idea that Alonso criticisms helped Honda have a good engine.

Honda was ready to leave F1 in 2018 (search online). So they can't say the reviews helped because they did the opposite. And from the development of the engine, they would arrive sooner or later at a good level.
The people who saved the Honda F1 project were Franz Tost and Helmut Marko. Using the TR as a test car.

I think the same as @Jambier. The main problem is that Alonso is Toyota ambassador
True visionaries. Nobody in 2017 wanted to even touch Honda with a stick. Remember Alonso also saying he felt sorry for TR and their drivers. Not many people had confidence in their decision. We're everybody else saw hopelessness the RBR group saw opportunity. Credit to RBR managment.
That said it would have been nice see Alonso in a competitive Indy car. Even though I am not an Indy follower, the 2017 race got me started. I wonder if the apology came in hopes of Honda agreeing however the problem with the apology was that he included a "but"

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Wouter
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Datco wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:40 pm
That said it would have been nice see Alonso in a competitive Indy car. Even though I am not an Indy follower, the 2017 race got me started. I wonder if the apology came in hopes of Honda agreeing however the problem with the apology was that he included a "but"
Same here. :) Also the "but".

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subcritical71
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Wouter wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:00 pm
Datco wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:40 pm
That said it would have been nice see Alonso in a competitive Indy car. Even though I am not an Indy follower, the 2017 race got me started. I wonder if the apology came in hopes of Honda agreeing however the problem with the apology was that he included a "but"
Same here. :) Also the "but".
This makes no sense to me, or rather it may be an emotional decision. What happens if he goes to a Chevy team and wins the race...

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El Scorchio
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Well, it’s a shame be sure I’d like him to do the crown, but this is the perfect example of the damaging side of his personality, and why he’s never achieved what his natural talent deserved due to his sometimes poisonous actions.

Honda 1 Alonso 0