General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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turbof1
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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HPD wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:54 pm
To clarify something
There were many problems with the Honda engine thread and the Mclaren Honda thread. (publications that do not correspond to the theme of the thread).

Then, as a temporary solution, the Mods created this thread to be able to debate without damaging other "technical" threads.
They grant us a special permission for Mclaren fans to debate with Honda fans (about the engine, the chassis, etc.). It's not what McLaren will do in Season Season, Renault reliability, etc. As he said @Thunder.

Comments that do not contribute to the discussion, or to the topic, I'm sure the Mods will eliminate it. That's why @ turbof1 asked us to control our emotions.
There we go. Thanks for that, HPD.

To everyone: This is not a McLaren thread. Infact, I made sure to add a link in the first post, to the 2017 mclaren-honda team thread to discuss their joint performance there and not here. I know this makes that the discussions are quite fragmented, but this is NOT a mclaren thread and it is NOT a toro rosso thread. This is a Honda F1 thread, this is about what Honda themselves do towards the sport, what their management structure for the F1 department is, what commitments they make and ultimately what they have to say about their own performance.

For the record, everybody is welcome in this thread. But you have to stick to the ground rules:
turbof1 wrote:Also, to be 100% clear: we will not allow insults or overly negativity, even if performance is abysmal. We expect that our members are capable of making reasonable posts and keep their emotions in check.

I understand that some people will be left a bit bitter due the performance of Honda not meeting the expectations at McLaren. But, that's how motorsport is or really any sport is. Especially in such a complex sport, failure is just lurking around the corner. That has to be expected and relativated. You can't see this topic as an excuse to vent frustration about a failed collaboration (and for the matter of fact, we don't allow that in any topic). That's not what F1Technical stands for.

For the record, this wasn't true either
:
is there anyway to get rid of these mclaren trolls invading a Honda general topic . let them boast about how good there chassis is on another topic not this topic. can the moderators do something about this. stop people showing negativity toward honda
Nobody boasted about the chassis, people were speculating about the relative performance. Not the place to have that discussion here, but neither as biased as this post made it. It's good to talk to fellow members to stay on topic,
I actually recommend this kind of group control, just not in this manner. Nobody boasted, nobody trolled. Claiming that people did will only generate further off topic discussion and aggrevate others.


I'm trying to look where it went sideways with this topic, and I can see that it happened with 2 posts where Honda was compared with Renault and McLaren:
Getting into a position by summer where Honda can look a similar or better proposition than Renault for 2019 has to be the target
Except all eyes won't be on Honda. Mclaren will have all the eyes on them and how there car will be with a Renault power unit and how it compares to the red bull.
I can accept that first quote as being a performance target for Honda, although it did made people discuss beyond the borders of this topic about Renault's reliability. The second one has nothing to do with this topic. McLaren can be compared to Red Bull in a test thread, a race thread, their respective team threads but not a Honda thread. Concerning 2018, there is no link anymore between Honda and McLaren. Everyone should accept that. That collaboration is done and dusted.

So from there I will delete all the post not comforming with what is outlied in the topic rules. Please stay on topic.
#AeroFrodo

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dren
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am
As it was at this years testing... All eyes (media and scrutiny) will be on Honda, again. Hopefully we don't have to listen to Ted dribble smart-ass comments throughout and actually provide unbiased and not backhanded commentary. Give me facts, not your personal, snide opinion.
I really think there will be less scrutiny on Honda, since they're powering a TR and not the beloved Mclaren that the British media loves. TR is in Italy, disconnected from the local British F1 consortium. I'm sure if Honda has troubles, there will still be some snide comments. I am expecting them to hit the ground running with few issues. It surely can't be worse than '15 & '17!
Honda!

HondaRaceReplica
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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dren wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:05 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am
As it was at this years testing... All eyes (media and scrutiny) will be on Honda, again. Hopefully we don't have to listen to Ted dribble smart-ass comments throughout and actually provide unbiased and not backhanded commentary. Give me facts, not your personal, snide opinion.
I really think there will be less scrutiny on Honda, since they're powering a TR and not the beloved Mclaren that the British media loves. TR is in Italy, disconnected from the local British F1 consortium. I'm sure if Honda has troubles, there will still be some snide comments. I am expecting them to hit the ground running with few issues. It surely can't be worse than '15 & '17!
I don’t understand the snide comments though...Why is all the negativity pointed at Honda,when other PU suppliers have not delivered on reliability either(Renault)....I mean Ferrari while having the second best PU in Formula 1 potentially lost the Driver’s Championship two years in a row due to PU failures at the most inopportune time!

PowerofDreams
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Anyone have new info on the switch to Mobil 1 for the PU?

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dren
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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HondaRaceReplica wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:02 pm
dren wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:05 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am
As it was at this years testing... All eyes (media and scrutiny) will be on Honda, again. Hopefully we don't have to listen to Ted dribble smart-ass comments throughout and actually provide unbiased and not backhanded commentary. Give me facts, not your personal, snide opinion.
I really think there will be less scrutiny on Honda, since they're powering a TR and not the beloved Mclaren that the British media loves. TR is in Italy, disconnected from the local British F1 consortium. I'm sure if Honda has troubles, there will still be some snide comments. I am expecting them to hit the ground running with few issues. It surely can't be worse than '15 & '17!
I don’t understand the snide comments though...Why is all the negativity pointed at Honda,when other PU suppliers have not delivered on reliability either(Renault)....I mean Ferrari while having the second best PU in Formula 1 potentially lost the Driver’s Championship two years in a row due to PU failures at the most inopportune time!
Well, Honda was extremely bad in testing relative to the second worst, Renault. Even the Honda die hards were losing faith, me included. Here's hoping for better results in 2018.
Honda!

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turbof1
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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HondaRaceReplica wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:02 pm
dren wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:05 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am
As it was at this years testing... All eyes (media and scrutiny) will be on Honda, again. Hopefully we don't have to listen to Ted dribble smart-ass comments throughout and actually provide unbiased and not backhanded commentary. Give me facts, not your personal, snide opinion.
I really think there will be less scrutiny on Honda, since they're powering a TR and not the beloved Mclaren that the British media loves. TR is in Italy, disconnected from the local British F1 consortium. I'm sure if Honda has troubles, there will still be some snide comments. I am expecting them to hit the ground running with few issues. It surely can't be worse than '15 & '17!
I don’t understand the snide comments though...Why is all the negativity pointed at Honda,when other PU suppliers have not delivered on reliability either(Renault)....I mean Ferrari while having the second best PU in Formula 1 potentially lost the Driver’s Championship two years in a row due to PU failures at the most inopportune time!
Not really on topic, but you are basically asking why people behave the way they do. It's perhaps the society as a whole not able to deal with failure. In all honesty, and I am telling this from a neutral viewpoint, Honda should be commended that despite the struggles and lashbacks, they keep trying. It goes against the standard mentality in a very good way.

Let's keep it at that. Back on topic!
#AeroFrodo

Manoah2u
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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HondaRaceReplica wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:02 pm
dren wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:05 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am
As it was at this years testing... All eyes (media and scrutiny) will be on Honda, again. Hopefully we don't have to listen to Ted dribble smart-ass comments throughout and actually provide unbiased and not backhanded commentary. Give me facts, not your personal, snide opinion.
I really think there will be less scrutiny on Honda, since they're powering a TR and not the beloved Mclaren that the British media loves. TR is in Italy, disconnected from the local British F1 consortium. I'm sure if Honda has troubles, there will still be some snide comments. I am expecting them to hit the ground running with few issues. It surely can't be worse than '15 & '17!
I don’t understand the snide comments though...Why is all the negativity pointed at Honda,when other PU suppliers have not delivered on reliability either(Renault)....I mean Ferrari while having the second best PU in Formula 1 potentially lost the Driver’s Championship two years in a row due to PU failures at the most inopportune time!
Critisism is due where critisism is due. The exact same happened to Renault in 2014, which caused a severe dent in the relationship between RedBull and Renault.

Renault got their fair share of critisism and negativity for that, all completely deserved though. It's not like Honda is getting treated any different than their competitors.

Honda dropped the ball, twice. First with their 2015 engine, second with their 2017 engine. Even though they should be praised for the immense work they did with turning the 2017 engine useable in the timeframe they had, fact is the Honda engine(s) has been an absolute disaster since testing in 2014 right up untill well, the end of the 2017 season. The Renault engine in 2014 wasn't even that bad or 'behind' compared to the Honda engine in 2015 and again in 2017.

And despite Ferrari having several PU failures that have had an affect on slimming down chances of grabbing a driver championship, that still doesn't take away at all that the Honda engine - atleast was - far from even being remotely able to come close to a podium. Had the Honda engine not been in the back of a Mclaren, then i'm sure pressure would have been less. Still, they would have been in the exact same situation right now.

Meanwhile it's an undeniable fact that the Honda engine for 2017 has been a huge disappointment. Even more so because the expectations were high, much much higher even compared to both 2015 and 2016.

Expectations for 2018 now will be an all time low. Funny enough, 2018 might actually be the exact moment where the Honda engine might actually blossom.

Honda is in any case to be praised for it's commitment though. I was afraid they'd pull out after yet another unsucessfull run (ala 2009) but it seems like they're adamant to make it work.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Zynerji
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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It has been said in interviews with renault and red bull that RBR actually did their own developments on the V8 engines.

I would not count out similar ties between RBR and Honda, with STR as the testbed.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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dren wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:05 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am
As it was at this years testing... All eyes (media and scrutiny) will be on Honda, again. Hopefully we don't have to listen to Ted dribble smart-ass comments throughout and actually provide unbiased and not backhanded commentary. Give me facts, not your personal, snide opinion.
I really think there will be less scrutiny on Honda, since they're powering a TR and not the beloved Mclaren that the British media loves. TR is in Italy, disconnected from the local British F1 consortium. I'm sure if Honda has troubles, there will still be some snide comments. I am expecting them to hit the ground running with few issues. It surely can't be worse than '15 & '17!
=D>. I hear italian press is worse that spanish and english combined lol

techman
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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the british press is one very biased press. i will give an example of one journo called andrew benson who work for bbc , he is a consistent honda basher. he was spreading false rumours about mercedes having over 1000bhp a few years ago but the good news his false rumours were exposed big time , with the new article on motorsport.com, mercedes claiming there closing in on 1000bhp. and this was the same journo who said honda is lacking over 100bhp , what a complete bs. its biased british journos like him create false believe among people and make people say horrible things about honda. which is annoying, and with people like hasegawa who will not say anything to defend honda,this gives them more ammo to dont take the fulll story but read biased people like eric boullier or some quote from a mclaren enginneers and exaggarate 10 times just to get attention and spread hate on honda.

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turbof1
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Ok, this is really annoying given I specifically stated on the previous page that overly negativity and off topic discussion -to which str, mclaren and mercedes all belong to- is not allowed.

So I'll be cleaning this topic once again once I get hold of something bigger than a smartphone. After that, see what happens when you go off topic or try another big d*ck battle whether the Honda or McLaren gang are the better bashers. I dare anybody to pull that one off again.
#AeroFrodo

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turbof1
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Alright, I cleaned up the mess. Looks like no more big d*ck battles have been done in the meanwhile, meaning either the message got through or everybody's viagra ran out.

For the record, what is allowed is criticism. Yes that is different from overly negativity. Manoah's post for example evaluated Honda's performance since 2015. Notice that his assessment is balanced, giving also praise to Honda where it is due. You don't necessarily need to give praise, but criticism involves point to specifics. It becomes negativity when you have nothing else to say than "they are so bad!".

I also can accept people pointing to bias in journalism involving Honda. However, posters have to make sure they are only reporting about the bias without antagonizing people. Be absolutely sure you are targetting the journalism and not the nation's people! And when you want to reply that, make sure it loops back to Honda. Just picking a part out of someone's post about for instance Mercedes and only discussing that is simply off topic. If you want to discuss that, copy the part, paste it to the Mercedes thread and discuss it there.

Let me also make myself clear this topic was meant as discussion place for Honda's affairs in F1 in general, not as dumping place. The thread is moderated strictly to ensure that. Objectivity is king here.
#AeroFrodo

Espresso
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Well back to topic on the engine! =D> Technical piece from Drivetribe to restart the thread.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Why the Honda F1 Engines don't work
So to explain the complexities Honda are facing in getting things right, first we must all get get a basic understanding what the things are. This article is in no way complete and (using F1 language,) “for sure” is a very simplified scenario of why Honda are struggling to produce power, any kind of fuel economy, and not least, reliability....

...continue reading this piece in this article
Image
Do you feel the need to post, comment or criticize in this forum?
Please substantiate (why, how, what) your reply!
This is no twitter or chatbox but a forum.

Stay friendly and keep away bashing, trolling & baiting from our wonderful technical forum. --> Forum Guide

restless
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Sorry, but this "article" ... is ... what?!
Some popular pictures about HCCI/TJI aaand nothing else.
And some sentences are written using english words :O . Like :
We have to conceded to a minute understanding in comparison to dedicated engineers, and despite years in engine mapping, these guys have forgotten more than we will ever know about these engines, the problem Honda are having is in controlling the compression within the bore in order to obtain efficiency.
Seriously, I don't get the meaning of these words... english is not native for me, its my 2nd best foreign language... but if that sentence is valid I promise not to post anything here, for a month at least :/

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dren
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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It's a pretty poor article for many reasons. I don't recommend wasting your time reading it.
Honda!