Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

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jjn9128
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by jjn9128 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:03 am

DiogoBrand wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:52 am
I wonder how much the front wing complexity is responsible for making drivers unable to follow. Wings were much simpler in 2009 but cars were just as hard to follow. Even in 2008 they were simpler, but still it was hard to stay on the wake of another car.
No matter how simple you make the wings, there are two things about the current cars that will alwas make it impossible to follow:
1 - The amount of downforce: Doesn't matter if you need a million winglets or two very simple wings, with the shear amount of downforce that cars produce today it will always be difficult to follow.
2 - The drag of the cars: If you look at my OP, I posted this video:
https://youtu.be/9z97xX-VfX8
If you pay attention you'll notice that it's not the upwash that make cars hard to follow, it's actually the air that's pulled by the car ahead. So instead of having static air, let's say at 250km/h relative to your car, the air is still moving at 30km/h, so relative to your car it's only at 220km/h, which makes a huge difference. You can work at reducing the upwash, but there will always be drag.


In conclusion: it doesn't matter how simple you make the wings, if the amount of downforce doesn't decrease, following closely will always be pretty much impossible.
Not going to disagree with your conclusion that less downforce would be probably be better, but the cars in 2009 did follow more easily than they do now. I forget the exact numbers, but it reduced the offset in pace required to effect an overtake over 2008 - certainly at the start of the season - the problem was the double diffuser. The double diffuser significantly increased downforce (especially from the underbody, which is particularly dirty). 2009 had some fantastic races, I particularly remember Brazil (for Button's championship win) where Button and Vettel stormed through the field from 14th and 16th to 5th and 4th.

I've said it before, the wake could be pretty easily cleaned up with a massive, low aspect ratio, rear wing. It works to suck the wake up into the air - you lose slipstream but cars can follow. I think this may be the way the FIA/FOM are going in 2021... watch this space!
#aerogandalf

roon
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by roon » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:54 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:03 am
I've said it before, the wake could be pretty easily cleaned up with a massive, low aspect ratio, rear wing.
How well does that work for LMP cars?

jjn9128
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Re: Why overtaking is dead, and might never come back

Post by jjn9128 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:26 pm

roon wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:54 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:03 am
I've said it before, the wake could be pretty easily cleaned up with a massive, low aspect ratio, rear wing.
How well does that work for LMP cars?
LMP1 have high aspect ratio rear wings - they're easier to race because they're really low drag, but they also have different maps for ERS and fuel which means the car are performing differently throughout the event.

Indycar rear wings are low aspect ratio - or Lotus 79 and others in that era were pretty square.
#aerogandalf