Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
3
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
35
35%
Neither record will be broken.
15
15%
Both records will be broken.
48
48%
 
Total votes: 101

NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:19 pm

You're probably right Phil, I should have read more about what he said, but the fact remains that Marko talks utter crap most of the time so I'm not willing to read any more than the headline. I think Marko has to be the biggest clown in the paddock.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Phil » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:37 pm

Hey, I like the clown. And the other one too (Niki Lauda). They are vocal, direct and say what they think, regardless of the consequences. I much prefer those characters in F1, over those that run everything through a PR filter before they say something. With Helmut and Niki, you get the raw stuff, unfiltered. Not everything is right, some of it is perhaps pure optimism. But one thing is for certain: They are not stupid. When they say something, there's a reason for it.

Much better than i.e. Ferrari who say absolutely nothing to the media.
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ringo
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by ringo » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:15 am

The engines can improve without improving raw power. If reliability improves they will be able to run at max power for longer periods of time.
I dont see Honda delivering the same level of reliability even if they matched mercedez on power.
Saying that, max may need to wait a year or 2 to get a top 2 car. Then he may need to wait another year or two to leaen how championship fights are won. Lewis may well be a #9 indeed.
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Manoah2u
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Manoah2u » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:34 pm

I can see Max winning the WDC next year with RBR Honda.
The RB will be a top 2 car.

Bottas is not even worth mentioning.
Gasly is Max' wingman.

Ferrari is suffering the aftermath of Marchionne's sudden passing, the internal war creating camps and thus hampering the team due to the Binotti-Arrivabene clash.
Arrivabene stays, Binotti goes. Raikkonen goes, a rookie takes place. Vettel is unstable, can't handle the pressure, and if LeClerc matches him it's gonna be even worse.
Meanwhile, the Ferrari will not be as compettitive next year as for the past 2 years due to the Ferrari being designed for the past year and this one, and the conflict of this year
has caused a domino effect for next year, including the floor that was introduced that worked opposite.
Ferrari will start 2019 on a back foot, they won't be remotely as competitive as they were this and last year.

Mercedes is on a high, as is Hamilton, BUT hamilton will once again slump into relax mode and will have trouble starting up next year again. After a few races he'll bounce back,
and is a force to reckon with, as will the Merc.

but RB is investing gigantically for next year, so has and is Honda, and is Max. Newey has putting things on the low for the past years but is giving it all for 2019 with the new RB15.
Max is on the hunt, excited, and has been able to make people weary of him, just look at Hamilton how he avoids him even though that's because of the title, it also infuses a unavoidable mental imprint that'll stay.

Next year will be Max vs Lewis guaranteed.

Either can win. If Ham wins, he'll go for Schumacher's record, and quite frankly, that'll hamper any chance Max would ever get for that.
If Max wins, Hamilton is going to lose interest fast and might end his F1 career soon.

People seem to also forget that Hamilton got a WDC capable car from his debut, and was WDC the 2nd year.
Max has been in cars that are far from WDC able for 4 seasons before next year getting a chance at the title finally with a decent car, even though that still remains to be seen.

in 2009, the season right after securing the WDC, he had a car that was miles off the title compared to BrawnGP and RedBull. you could say that is comparable to the RB this year.
in 2010, 2011 and 2012 Lewis had a Mclaren which was still quite potential but not for the WDC, but arguably in a better spot than Max' RB Renault this year.
Definately way better than the Toro Rosso max was in when he started his F1 career.

the only moment Lewis had a car worse than 2009 was the Merc in 2013, and even then he won a gp and had several podiums.

Then, for 5 consecutive seasons, Lewis had the privilidge of a super dominating Mercedes.

Lewis thus has had in his 12 season career in f1 better material handed to him to be even able to achieve the figures he has today.

Max has already 4 seasons under his belt, and none in a WDC capable car.
PERHAPS next year he has - i expect so - but then that car surely won't be as dominating as the Merc has been.

Hamilton COULD have had 6 titles if Rosberg wasn't favoured and snatched one in 2016.

My point thus is, Lewis has far better chances to his availability to beat the legendary Schumacher's titles (and wins).

I'm not saying Max can't get those figures if he stays long enough in F1, but first of all Max doesn't have any motivation like Lewis has/had.
Max has no 'i want to achieve Senna' figures. He has no 'i want to achieve Schumi' figures. He drives for himself, no more, no less.

Lewis wanted Senna's figures. Achieving that, he's still in a favourable position. Now, Schumi's figures are within reach. Even if he hadn't opted for that first,
it's within arms length, so why not go for it, beat it, and then say 'i'm done' and go for his other wishes. He can be 37 when getting the 8th title, if the dominance stays.
even with a year missing out, he's gonna hit 38 to be able to make it 8th. young enough.

that would mean Max, would atleast be for a full 7 seasons in F1 before achieving a F1 title, OR 8 seasons in F1 with 1 title under his belt.
then, he'd need 8 more seasons to be able to beat that figure (of 8 titles).

No way, he's just not the type of guy for that in my opinion.

Not taking away any of Max' craft and spectacle, but that's not really his cup. I think Piquet and Mansell were spectacular too, but neither of them are drivers that ever would have interest in such (demanding) figures.

The only guy i can see coming up that MIGHT be interested in such figures, AND could have a road open for him is going to be Mick Schumacher, IF he even has the talent.
Otherwise, either Schumacher's spree will stand for years and years to come OR it will be Hamilton's figures that'll stand for years and years to come.

As for race wins, that's a different story. But titles, not so easily.

With 20+ races, you can beat those figures in 6 seasons easily as long as you have a capable car.

Schumacher had from 1992 till 2006, 14 years. if there were 20+ races in all those seasons, he'd undoubtedly had about 200 wins.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:10 pm

Max is unproven.

He is no superman, I can tell you that. But if the Honda Engine gets close to Ferrari and Mercedes the RedBull will be the fastest car. And we all know how devastating a RedBull is at full grip.
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Gaz.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Gaz. » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:31 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:34 pm

People seem to also forget that Hamilton got a WDC capable car from his debut,
Nobody forgets that because it gets mentioned every other day.

Also you may want to tally up the points Max lost this year when a calmer head would have brought home a hell of a lot of points. He may not have won the WDC but it would have been right up with Vettel who was seen as a championship contender until the closing stages of the season when he too lost his cool.

The RBR-Honda may be absolutely mighty but how many points get notched up when you're on the back of a scooter going back to the pits again? Alonso in 2012 and Hamilton in 2017 & 2018 showed that just grinding out the results and playing the percentage game works. Look after the points and the championships look after themselves to bend a well known phrase.
Forza Jules

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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:50 am

That is true the gaps between 2nd to 5th is pretty much the same as second to first! So a more consistent drive from Max would have seen him on Vettels heels.

I actually think Max is at a less developed than Hamilton was at 4 years experience.. We seem to forget that he is no spring chicken despite his young age!
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

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Manoah2u
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Manoah2u » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:14 pm

Gaz. wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:31 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:34 pm

People seem to also forget that Hamilton got a WDC capable car from his debut,
Nobody forgets that because it gets mentioned every other day.

Also you may want to tally up the points Max lost this year when a calmer head would have brought home a hell of a lot of points. He may not have won the WDC but it would have been right up with Vettel who was seen as a championship contender until the closing stages of the season when he too lost his cool.

The RBR-Honda may be absolutely mighty but how many points get notched up when you're on the back of a scooter going back to the pits again? Alonso in 2012 and Hamilton in 2017 & 2018 showed that just grinding out the results and playing the percentage game works. Look after the points and the championships look after themselves to bend a well known phrase.
Hamilton lost a good chunk of points too against several collisions with Massa.
Just as much as Vettel lost loads of points after getting pressured by Ham in situations like Hockenheim. Or worse, Baku last year.

It goes on and on. Ricciardo also lost loads of points with technical issues, had that not happened, he'd have snooped of points of Verstappen and co too, as DannyRic is great enough of a driver to be fighting at the front, as he's proven countless times.

I still believe, that despite the outcome was a crash, the battle between Max and Daniel @ Baku was one of the greatest in the past seasons. They left eachother 'no room' without actually crashing untill that final moment when they got too close and the aerodynamics combined to bold moves resulted in a crash.
It showed just how much of competition was going on, aswell as how competitive both are, and how great of a drive both were having right there. I really enjoyed that.

I also enjoyed Max vs Hamilton last race, but it must be said that Ham was holding off because he didn't want to crash and miss out the WDC. Then at the same time i believe Max also said he left Ham some room, so i think both played pretty equal in the battle on not going full-on. Would have loved to see full-on though, but i think Max would have lost out to a more powerful Mercedes in the end. I think Hamilton was holding back and being far more conservative than Max even could, even if it would be just to the car, the combo of it topped it off.

I'm sad to see Daniel leave RB. I do believe RB are fully aiming for Max next year and that's why Daniel left, as he'd be Webber-ized. Still, Renault is a huge step back. 2019 is not going to be a great year for Renault, so personally, i think Danny better stayed with RB in a strong Honda win capable car, to perhaps move to Ferrari in 2020. But hey.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:52 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:34 pm


People seem to also forget that Hamilton got a WDC capable car from his debut, and was WDC the 2nd year.
And people forget that he earned that car by showing his talent over a number of years. He won each of the feeder series he competed in before he got an F1 test and then seat. Don't forget he walked up to Ron Dennis and basically asked for a drive when he was a little kid. Ron was impressed and watched out for him and ended up helping his career. That's not luck, that's determination etc. Max had one season in single seaters and came third. Now, don't get me wrong, the guy had to be good to do that - no taking away from his talent. Max also had a dad with connections/a name/money whatever.

Hamilton made full use of the WDC capable car he was given - unlike some drivers who showed promise but failed to shine. He beat the reigning champion in his rookie year and won the title the next year - in the second best car on the grid. The Ferrari really was better and Massa really should have won the title.

Is Hamilton faster than Max? Don't know. Close, I reckon. Very close. Is Hamilton better than Max? At the moment, oh yes! That's because he has more experience and has a much better all round game than Max. Can Max be as good? Yes, if he works hard and learns form his mistakes. Max's legacy is in his own hands at the moment.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by ringo » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:23 am

There is a gulf of difference in ability between Hamilton and Max. It become more clearer when max fights lewis directly similar to how vettel was seen as the complete driver in a redbull and suddenly got a reality check when he get competition from Hamilton and is made to look like a rookie.
Judging by Max's teammates i dont think he is as good as he appears to be. I think he is definitely top 5 but i think the redbull's grip and stability is warping perceptions. I dont think he had what it takes yet to do what Hamilton has done these past 10 years in Formula1.
He will need a couple years fighting on the front row with all the pressure on his shoulders to figure out this championship thing. Once Lewis sees max as the direct competitor all kinds of mind games and psychological crushing tactics he learned competing with some very political guys like alonso button and nico will be concentrated on little Max. Should be interesting to witness.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by Gaz. » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:30 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:14 pm
Gaz. wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:31 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:34 pm

People seem to also forget that Hamilton got a WDC capable car from his debut,
Nobody forgets that because it gets mentioned every other day.

Also you may want to tally up the points Max lost this year when a calmer head would have brought home a hell of a lot of points. He may not have won the WDC but it would have been right up with Vettel who was seen as a championship contender until the closing stages of the season when he too lost his cool.

The RBR-Honda may be absolutely mighty but how many points get notched up when you're on the back of a scooter going back to the pits again? Alonso in 2012 and Hamilton in 2017 & 2018 showed that just grinding out the results and playing the percentage game works. Look after the points and the championships look after themselves to bend a well known phrase.
Hamilton lost a good chunk of points too against several collisions with Massa.
Just as much as Vettel lost loads of points after getting pressured by Ham in situations like Hockenheim. Or worse, Baku last year.

It goes on and on. Ricciardo also lost loads of points with technical issues, had that not happened, he'd have snooped of points of Verstappen and co too, as DannyRic is great enough of a driver to be fighting at the front, as he's proven countless times.

I still believe, that despite the outcome was a crash, the battle between Max and Daniel @ Baku was one of the greatest in the past seasons. They left eachother 'no room' without actually crashing untill that final moment when they got too close and the aerodynamics combined to bold moves resulted in a crash.
It showed just how much of competition was going on, aswell as how competitive both are, and how great of a drive both were having right there. I really enjoyed that.

I also enjoyed Max vs Hamilton last race, but it must be said that Ham was holding off because he didn't want to crash and miss out the WDC. Then at the same time i believe Max also said he left Ham some room, so i think both played pretty equal in the battle on not going full-on. Would have loved to see full-on though, but i think Max would have lost out to a more powerful Mercedes in the end. I think Hamilton was holding back and being far more conservative than Max even could, even if it would be just to the car, the combo of it topped it off.

I'm sad to see Daniel leave RB. I do believe RB are fully aiming for Max next year and that's why Daniel left, as he'd be Webber-ized. Still, Renault is a huge step back. 2019 is not going to be a great year for Renault, so personally, i think Danny better stayed with RB in a strong Honda win capable car, to perhaps move to Ferrari in 2020. But hey.
Re 2011- yes he did and he learned from it immediately, from 2012 season and onward - so seven full seasons how many points has Hamilton dropped through a driving error? That you might think "well there's Monza 2013, Austria 2014, Brazil 2017..." suggests that it doesn't happen often and you do recall when it has because it's noticeable.

Re:Ricciardo- yes he dropped a ton of points on tech, but that's out of his hands as it is for everyone else which is why I never mentioned it for Max this year.

Max is about to complete four full seasons in F1, with the only pressure being that he has had to keep his seat- like everyone else yet he has rarely shown he is willing to learn or adapt.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by holeindalip » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 am

Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:34 pm


Hamilton COULD have had 6 titles if Rosberg wasn't favoured and snatched one in 2016.

if your going to bring up 2016 might as well bring up 2007 as well since that title was only lost by 1 point so potential 7x champion in 11 years, even if your not a hamilton fan you have to admit he has the speed and the ability to bring the car home. hes won titles through 3 different regulation changes. has any other driver done this before??

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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by pantherxxx » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:50 am

It's possible but I think everyone ignores 2 drivers as possible WDC candidates of the future. Charles Leclerc and Pierry Gasly. If Ferrari will be as competitive in the next years as this year, and Red Bull Honda will improve, they will also have a real chance to win the championship. Pierry Gasly reminds me of early Vettel, who got amazing results with a mediocre Toro Rosso, and Charles Leclerc is simply fast as hell. Hamilton should not keep up forever, he is getting old too and will lose some speed.

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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by SiLo » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:59 pm

I think hamilton will fall short of both but get close. He will however put the pole position record out of reach for quite a long time.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post by strad » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:33 pm

If they keep adding races...Probably.
That's part of how we have the records we have now. It's a lot easier to rack up numbers when there are 20 races instead of 8.
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