Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

dans79
dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:20 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:53 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:46 pm

As opposed to trying to make him look rubbish in order to denigrate...


See how it plays both ways? :roll:
He is rubbish and the facts against Hamilton proves it. Possessing championship winning cars and losing out to other drivers with lesser cars does not exactly make him decent. Just hard facts.
Anyone who would try to argue that Bottas is good and all that, today's race confirms he is such a slouch. There couldn't have been a worse driver driving that dominating machine. His team mate just shows what that car can do. More than anything, another fluffed start. They even repaired his car in the break! Even a Barrichello could have achieved a minimum podium position, but not Bottas. Why need to put a line in the contract to make a driver No.2, when you have such a poor driver driving the car. :roll:
I take it you missed the fact that he got floor damage on lap one turn one!
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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:23 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:20 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:53 pm
He is rubbish and the facts against Hamilton proves it. Possessing championship winning cars and losing out to other drivers with lesser cars does not exactly make him decent. Just hard facts.
Anyone who would try to argue that Bottas is good and all that, today's race confirms he is such a slouch. There couldn't have been a worse driver driving that dominating machine. His team mate just shows what that car can do. More than anything, another fluffed start. They even repaired his car in the break! Even a Barrichello could have achieved a minimum podium position, but not Bottas. Why need to put a line in the contract to make a driver No.2, when you have such a poor driver driving the car. :roll:
I take it you missed the fact that he got floor damage on lap one turn one!
I guess you missed the part that it was repaired at the break. Hasn't Hamilton driven better races with damaged floor, like in Mexico? Do you discard another bad start which is the reason for that tangle? How long before he learns to get decent start?
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dans79
dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:27 pm
dans79 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:23 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:20 pm
Anyone who would try to argue that Bottas is good and all that, today's race confirms he is such a slouch. There couldn't have been a worse driver driving that dominating machine. His team mate just shows what that car can do. More than anything, another fluffed start. They even repaired his car in the break! Even a Barrichello could have achieved a minimum podium position, but not Bottas. Why need to put a line in the contract to make a driver No.2, when you have such a poor driver driving the car. :roll:
I take it you missed the fact that he got floor damage on lap one turn one!
I guess you missed the part that it was repaired at the break. Hasn't Hamilton driven better races with damaged floor, like in Mexico? Do you discard another bad start which is the reason for that tangle? How long before he learns to get decent start?
I didn't say anything about the start. You can't repair floor damage during a red flag. Just like in Baku, when Vettel rear-ended Lewis, Lewis just had to deal with the damage.
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Mamba
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:27 pm
I guess you missed the part that it was repaired at the break. Hasn't Hamilton driven better races with damaged floor, like in Mexico? Do you discard another bad start which is the reason for that tangle? How long before he learns to get decent start?
Last time I checked these floors (unlike the bodywork) are not modular and the entire car goes up on jacks to fit a new floor which is a single assembly. Bottas had body panels with altered with better airflow but I did not see his car up on jacks getting a new floor fitted.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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I dunno what you guys are talking about; but still three wins to go.
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Caesar.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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The thing that makes me want to shy away from placing Hamilton ahead of Schumacher is that I feel Lewis was beatable, and that there is larger gap between his best and worst seasons. Michael from mid 1993 to 2002 was consistently untouchable, while Lewis had off seasons in 2011 and 2013, while also losing the championship in the quickest car.
Last edited by Caesar. on Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Rosberg beat michael three years in a row.

I don't recall an off season in 2013. You made that one up!

Even for 2011 his speed nor race craft was not off. He was in red mist all year. Pushing like a hell and getting into accidents with Massa. Still 3 wins, only non-redbull pole and finished ahead equally with his WDC teammate.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Caesar. wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:14 am
The thing that makes me want to shy away from placing Hamilton ahead of Schumacher is that I feel Lewis was beatable, and that there is larger gap between his best and worst seasons. Michael from mid 1993 to 2002 was consistently untouchable, while Lewis had off seasons in 2011 and 2013, while also losing the championship in the quickest car.
Schumacher was very beatable in 2010-2012. Lewis hasn't been that bad at all. You have to count the whole career in F1, not just pick and choose. In my opinion, Lewis can't be the GOAT until he retires for good as a driver in F1. You have to be judged on his whole career. Schumacher damaged his greatness by coming back. It was his call, he was probably warned against it. Coming back usually damages your legacy.
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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:36 pm
Caesar. wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:14 am
The thing that makes me want to shy away from placing Hamilton ahead of Schumacher is that I feel Lewis was beatable, and that there is larger gap between his best and worst seasons. Michael from mid 1993 to 2002 was consistently untouchable, while Lewis had off seasons in 2011 and 2013, while also losing the championship in the quickest car.
Schumacher was very beatable in 2010-2012. Lewis hasn't been that bad at all. You have to count the whole career in F1, not just pick and choose. In my opinion, Lewis can't be the GOAT until he retires for good as a driver in F1. You have to be judged on his whole career. Schumacher damaged his greatness by coming back. It was his call, he was probably warned against it. Coming back usually damages your legacy.
The dying man's last straw, Schumacher's second career. Man this point in this argument is so predictable and rotten. One lucky decision taken out of frustration, turned out to be gold for a driver that landed in dominant cars, ramping up easy wins and championships without any competition. One line definition of Hamilton's greatness. Is that the qualification to be a GOAT?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Hey, if GOAT Floyd Mayweather can come back and kick-ass at 40 years old, Michael the driving GOAT should have done it too! Is three years out of the sport really that deleterious to ones driving skills? I thought Michael, other than the odd brain-fade, was performing at high level. He just wasn't used to the new regulation tyres and car behaviour but he did well to come up to speed in 2012.
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tangodjango
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:12 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:36 pm
Caesar. wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:14 am
The thing that makes me want to shy away from placing Hamilton ahead of Schumacher is that I feel Lewis was beatable, and that there is larger gap between his best and worst seasons. Michael from mid 1993 to 2002 was consistently untouchable, while Lewis had off seasons in 2011 and 2013, while also losing the championship in the quickest car.
Schumacher was very beatable in 2010-2012. Lewis hasn't been that bad at all. You have to count the whole career in F1, not just pick and choose. In my opinion, Lewis can't be the GOAT until he retires for good as a driver in F1. You have to be judged on his whole career. Schumacher damaged his greatness by coming back. It was his call, he was probably warned against it. Coming back usually damages your legacy.
a driver that landed in dominant cars, ramping up easy wins and championships without any competition. One line definition of Schumacher's greatness. Is that the qualification to be a GOAT?
There fixed it for you. Not mentioning the contractual number 2's (inferior to Bottas), superior machinery in the same team, unlimited testing, custom tyres, general lack of racing respect on track. Also was beaten by Hakkinen in 98-99 when he cracked under pressure. So hardly 'untouchable' from 1993-2002.
Last edited by tangodjango on Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Caesar.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:36 pm
Caesar. wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:14 am
The thing that makes me want to shy away from placing Hamilton ahead of Schumacher is that I feel Lewis was beatable, and that there is larger gap between his best and worst seasons. Michael from mid 1993 to 2002 was consistently untouchable, while Lewis had off seasons in 2011 and 2013, while also losing the championship in the quickest car.
Schumacher was very beatable in 2010-2012. Lewis hasn't been that bad at all. You have to count the whole career in F1, not just pick and choose. In my opinion, Lewis can't be the GOAT until he retires for good as a driver in F1. You have to be judged on his whole career. Schumacher damaged his greatness by coming back. It was his call, he was probably warned against it. Coming back usually damages your legacy.
Tbh, i don't really consider Michael's second career, maybe that's my bias kicking in, and yes, he was beatable. And yes, these goat debates are all relative because we all have different frameworks as what constitutes as the goat.

e30ernest
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Me personally, I think Lewis in his prime is every bit as fit and as fast as Schumacher was in his prime. What sets them apart IMO is that Lewis is generally a very clean racer. Michael has had some really questionable moments. Also, I firmly believe the field of drivers competing in the modern F1 era (last decade) are at a higher level than the field of drivers during Schumacher's era.

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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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tangodjango wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:43 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:12 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:36 pm


Schumacher was very beatable in 2010-2012. Lewis hasn't been that bad at all. You have to count the whole career in F1, not just pick and choose. In my opinion, Lewis can't be the GOAT until he retires for good as a driver in F1. You have to be judged on his whole career. Schumacher damaged his greatness by coming back. It was his call, he was probably warned against it. Coming back usually damages your legacy.
a driver that landed in dominant cars, ramping up easy wins and championships without any competition. One line definition of Schumacher's greatness. Is that the qualification to be a GOAT?
There fixed it for you. Not mentioning the contractual number 2's lapdog drivers (far worse than Bottas), superior machinery in the same team, unlimited testing, custom tyres, fraudulent FIA protection, general thuggery and criminal behaviour on track. Also was pasted by Hakkinen in 98-99 when he cracked and bottled it under pressure much like Vettel in 17-18. So much for being 'untouchable' from 1993-2002.
None of that will change the fact that, Hamilton got into easy wins with a lucky decision that landed him into dominant cars with absolutely and best lapdog of all time with which this so called greatness is being achieved.
Last edited by Moore77 on Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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e30ernest wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:46 pm
Me personally, I think Lewis in his prime is every bit as fit and as fast as Schumacher was in his prime. What sets them apart IMO is that Lewis is generally a very clean racer. Michael has had some really questionable moments. Also, I firmly believe the field of drivers competing in the modern F1 era (last decade) are at a higher level than the field of drivers during Schumacher's era.
For me this is 100% spot on. The pair were probably equal in their prime (maybe we havent seen Lewis prime yet lol) but Schumacher resorted to the dirty tricks multiple times. Then add the drivers they faced during their prime times (Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Montoya, Alonso) vs (Alonso, Massa, Raikkonen, Button, Vettel, Rosberg, Max) I feel the second group as a whole was stronger. Not by much, but stronger. So unless Lewis stays for many years and wrecks his legacy, I can see him as the GOAT.
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