Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

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henry
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by henry » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:26 pm

Clarification on haulage permits. There’s another set of permits, unlimited, that allow people/companies to transport their own property with no intention to trade it. This would, I think, apply to the F1 teams.

Somewhat less hassle.
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:15 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 am
But because it's so complex and especially the UK itself is so unprepared, I will think the three big UK based works teams are looking at ways to move, at least part of their company, to the EU and try to source materials from outside the UK.
You can't easily move parts of the company other than perhaps some managerial roles. Moving any one part of the company will be very expensive and probably more effort / cost than it's worth compared to just sorting out paperwork for those who need to travel.

Imagine moving the wind tunnel. In effect you'd have to build a new one somewhere else and get your staff to move or find new staff from elsewhere. That's tens of millions of dollars to do properly. It'll take time to do and start to get any results from it. By which time, the whole thing will have been sorted politically anyway.

If you have any information that shows that the teams are actively looking at moving their operations, please do share it.
I have no information about teams moving, like I said, it's something I would do if I was in charge. And like I was saying I wouldn't move the whole team in one go, just the race team. As you probably know, a F1 team is divided in different parts, a racing team, that travels the world with cars and drivers, a hospitality/marketing team and a factory (two in the case of the works teams, engine and car). The factory can stay put in the UK even if the country is in some kind of lockdown. The racing team is basically the cars, some spares for a few races, couple of trucks and about 50 essential mechanics. This would be wise to get this out of the UK before Brexit, so that at least for the first few races it's operation as normal. In the meantime it wait and see what happens with the UK and how Brexit would affect parts, cars, people and trucks moving in and out of the UK. A fairly cheap solution for a company like Renault, Daimler or RedBull. For teams like Williams, HAAS, McLaren and Racing Point, they could hire EU based racing teams like Prema or ART to run operations for a few races.

Of course, the FIA (and FOM) have to agree to switch licences from for instance Mercedes GP LTD to Mercedes GP AG, but in the possibility of having races that mimic the US 2005 GP, that wouldn't be a problem.

And it's not only the hassle of all the paperwork, it's more the non existing of the paperwork, custom offices, etc etc.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Morteza » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Manoah2u
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:20 pm

Williams RIP with brexit. they're as good as dead so.....
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by ScottB » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:02 pm

A Deal would see the UK move intro transition, so nothing would change for 2 years, if it led to a Customs Union type relationship, much would stay as is, in terms of moving things in and out of the country.

F1 teams however are of course, meritocracies. I doubt they care where you are from, if you're the best, they want you. A UK that puts up barriers to inward immigration will be a problem.

A No Deal would be chaotic for F1. The schedules in the calendar even are so tight, races back to back with Silverstone, stuff getting stuck at the border would blow the whole show. Also, how often do we see teams sending stuff out to races last minute? Forget that.

Also, quality of life in the UK would drop, leading staff could be lured abroad by a better quality of life. Most of the teams are foreign owned, they've no reason to stay if they can improve their lot by leaving. Mclaren are probably stuck here, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a facility opening in the EU, for their road cars as much as F1. Williams are in a weak state as it is, a shock to their system could be too much for them...

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Luciad13 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:47 am

henry wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:47 pm
I’m not sure that Brexit will be a big hardship for the F1 teams in the short term. I would think they have well organised logistics groups who make sure that everything is in place for races anywhere they are held. Paperwork, permits, etc. will be handled already. If more is needed because of a changed status between the EU and U.K. I’m sure they’ll take it in their stride assurances deces. They might feel the effects of any delays incurred by paperwork processing, they’re always in a hurry, but costs will be a small part of an F1 team budget.

More difficult might be the restrictions on labour movement. Right now if the best engineer for the job is Italian then she/he gets employed. In the future, which future is yet to be decided, they might need to justify the employment of that person versus a U.K. native, and/or put them into a queue with doctors, accountants or any other skilled professional waiting for a visa to work in the U.K. This is an issue with which our Prime Minister is obsessed, although not so obsessed that she can be bothered to say just what the rules should be in the future.
And it's not yet effective. So, F1 is lucky to emerge unscathed from all this political tension between the eurozone and the United Kingdom.

henry
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by henry » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:20 am

The political tension is wholly within the U.K. The EU and U.K. negotiated on the basis of their stated red lines, the set agreed by the E.U. 27, and the UK’s red lines, not explicitly agreed too by the U.K. parliament. Not surprisingly the agreement thus arrived at can not find a majority in the UK’s sovereign parliament.

Our mother of parliaments is unfit to cope with what is a huge constitutional change. Meanwhile the well organised, such as the remaining E.U. states, and the F1 teams, make, have made, preparations to cope with whatever emerges at the end of this stage of the process.

In support of my unfittedness claim I’d only mention that yesterday, 1 April 2019, MPs attended a seminar on “what is a customs union”.
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by geogate » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:11 pm

even leaving no deal wouldn't be that significant a handicap logistically - they already have systems where they control access to freight at the factory and essentially bypass customs checks. The only really issue facing them would be supply chains, but I can't see that being insurmountable either. Most parts come from distributors within the UK, and when needs must they buy in from the states, but the distributors already do that to get their stocks anyways, so far as military spec components go.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by diffuser » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:50 am

henry wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:20 am
The political tension is wholly within the U.K. The EU and U.K. negotiated on the basis of their stated red lines, the set agreed by the E.U. 27, and the UK’s red lines, not explicitly agreed too by the U.K. parliament. Not surprisingly the agreement thus arrived at can not find a majority in the UK’s sovereign parliament.

Our mother of parliaments is unfit to cope with what is a huge constitutional change. Meanwhile the well organised, such as the remaining E.U. states, and the F1 teams, make, have made, preparations to cope with whatever emerges at the end of this stage of the process.

In support of my unfittedness claim I’d only mention that yesterday, 1 April 2019, MPs attended a seminar on “what is a customs union”.
The issue was the winning requirement % for the referendum... it should have been 60%. It's obvious that 52% is not enough to choose anything.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Big Tea » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:50 am

diffuser wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:50 am
henry wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:20 am
The political tension is wholly within the U.K. The EU and U.K. negotiated on the basis of their stated red lines, the set agreed by the E.U. 27, and the UK’s red lines, not explicitly agreed too by the U.K. parliament. Not surprisingly the agreement thus arrived at can not find a majority in the UK’s sovereign parliament.

Our mother of parliaments is unfit to cope with what is a huge constitutional change. Meanwhile the well organised, such as the remaining E.U. states, and the F1 teams, make, have made, preparations to cope with whatever emerges at the end of this stage of the process.

In support of my unfittedness claim I’d only mention that yesterday, 1 April 2019, MPs attended a seminar on “what is a customs union”.
The issue was the winning requirement % for the referendum... it should have been 60%. It's obvious that 52% is not enough to choose anything.
The part that bugs me is the 'majority' of 17.4m with a population of over 66.5 million.
Whatever, it was done, so for goodnes sake lets get it finished, or dropped. it has cost more that any possible benefit already.
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Tommy Cookers » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:02 pm

your 66.5 million contains c.20 million non-adults and c. 6 million non-enfranchised adult migrants
ie the referendum turnout was a record high percentage of the electorate

the Withdrawal & Transition Bill would pass tomorrow if Labour allowed their MPs a free vote
remember we are in the EU only because Labour allowed their MPs a free vote over the European Communities Act in 1972

Labour is now blocking everything because they want to bring down the government and so force a General Election
this would give us a 'Labour' coalition government controlled by the SNP - who intend for Scotland to leave the UK
more border, import/export & migration problems, anyone ?

England % Wales is a multi-lane highway of great benefit to trade between the Irish Republic and mainland EU
most of this trade is artificial and environmentally damaging
this artificial trade is taxpayer-subsidised to further the EU progress as a political union
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Big Tea » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:19 pm

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:02 pm
your 66.5 million contains c.20 million non-adults and c. 6 million non-enfranchised adult migrants
ie the referendum turnout was a record high percentage of the electorate

the Withdrawal & Transition Bill would pass tomorrow if Labour allowed their MPs a free vote
remember we are in the EU only because Labour allowed their MPs a free vote over the European Communities Act in 1972

Labour is now blocking everything because they want to bring down the government and so force a General Election
this would give us a 'Labour' coalition government controlled by the SNP - who intend for Scotland to leave the UK
more border, import/export & migration problems, anyone ?

England % Wales is a multi-lane highway of great benefit to trade between the Irish Republic and mainland EU
most of this trade is artificial and environmentally damaging
https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ts-7399226
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Jolle » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:43 pm

geogate wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:11 pm
even leaving no deal wouldn't be that significant a handicap logistically - they already have systems where they control access to freight at the factory and essentially bypass customs checks. The only really issue facing them would be supply chains, but I can't see that being insurmountable either. Most parts come from distributors within the UK, and when needs must they buy in from the states, but the distributors already do that to get their stocks anyways, so far as military spec components go.
A few years after the Berlin Wall fell and we could travel to eastern Europe, I went to Lithuania. Because in the Cold War there was no use for anything else then a guard at the border who shot everybody and only a few people going trough per day, the movement of people and goods between Germany, Poland, Russia and the baltic states was, even after a few years, chaos. Going from a system: let anything/anyone trough/stop everything to a system were everything and everyone has to be administrated is immense and will take years. Maybe not years like when eaten Europe suddenly had to improvise such systems, but at least many months with gigantic waiting times, right at all the border ports. Just for infra structure all the ports for trucks will be one big cue. Probally the only way to really get stuff fast in and out of the UK will be by air from privet airports and with all the custom checks done in the factory. If, of course there are any custom agents left.

F1 could overcome everything with --- loads of cash, but other racing series might not. I think every racing series has British parts. Will they wait for those or will they try to source them elsewhere?

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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by Big Tea » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:18 pm

Jolle wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:43 pm
geogate wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:11 pm
even leaving no deal wouldn't be that significant a handicap logistically - they already have systems where they control access to freight at the factory and essentially bypass customs checks. The only really issue facing them would be supply chains, but I can't see that being insurmountable either. Most parts come from distributors within the UK, and when needs must they buy in from the states, but the distributors already do that to get their stocks anyways, so far as military spec components go.
A few years after the Berlin Wall fell and we could travel to eastern Europe, I went to Lithuania. Because in the Cold War there was no use for anything else then a guard at the border who shot everybody and only a few people going trough per day, the movement of people and goods between Germany, Poland, Russia and the baltic states was, even after a few years, chaos. Going from a system: let anything/anyone trough/stop everything to a system were everything and everyone has to be administrated is immense and will take years. Maybe not years like when eaten Europe suddenly had to improvise such systems, but at least many months with gigantic waiting times, right at all the border ports. Just for infra structure all the ports for trucks will be one big cue. Probally the only way to really get stuff fast in and out of the UK will be by air from privet airports and with all the custom checks done in the factory. If, of course there are any custom agents left.

F1 could overcome everything with --- loads of cash, but other racing series might not. I think every racing series has British parts. Will they wait for those or will they try to source them elsewhere?
Remember. For the F1 truck with immaculate paper work and 'spending money' there are 50 trucks infront of it that may or may not have correct paperwork or something that needs to be queried. the F1 truck takes just as long to get through as any half arsed attempt infront of it
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Re: Will Brexit ultimately affect the performances of F1 teams from 2019 onwards?

Post by diffuser » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:47 am

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:02 pm
your 66.5 million contains c.20 million non-adults and c. 6 million non-enfranchised adult migrants
ie the referendum turnout was a record high percentage of the electorate

the Withdrawal & Transition Bill would pass tomorrow if Labour allowed their MPs a free vote
remember we are in the EU only because Labour allowed their MPs a free vote over the European Communities Act in 1972

Labour is now blocking everything because they want to bring down the government and so force a General Election
this would give us a 'Labour' coalition government controlled by the SNP - who intend for Scotland to leave the UK
more border, import/export & migration problems, anyone ?

England % Wales is a multi-lane highway of great benefit to trade between the Irish Republic and mainland EU
most of this trade is artificial and environmentally damaging
this artificial trade is taxpayer-subsidised to further the EU progress as a political union
Pretty sure the labour party voted no for the most part in the referendum. Which brings me back to the original point. Referendums, in general, should require a 60% to pass. Otherwise you run the risk of paralysis.