Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
theriusDR3
5
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:04 am
Location: Pontianak

Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by theriusDR3 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:30 am

Recently Nyck de Vries was the latest victim of young driver from F2 failed for F1 graduation because of signing Mercedes FE team with former fellow McLaren driver Stoffel Vandoorne. What F1 must do after so many young F2 drivers failed for graduation because of not affiliated with junior academy team, lack of seats available, lack of funds, lack of FIA Super License points (must be 40) or something else. Most rejected F1 graduation from F2 are settling for endurance racing, IndyCar, Japanese Super Formula and somewhere else. I'm feeling sorry to see F2 young drivers struggling for F1 graduation. Leclerc, Norris and Russell are recently managed for F1 graduation because of affiliated with junior academy team monikers.

Your opinions?

Maritimer
16
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:45 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by Maritimer » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:31 am

F1 doesnt need to do anything

hollus
Moderator
User avatar
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:21 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by hollus » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:46 am

F1 has only 20 seats.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

raymondu999
143
User avatar
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by raymondu999 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:52 am

I think the big thing is, there are graduates every year. And there aren’t retirees every year. It’s basically a bottleneck
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

JordanMugen
20
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by JordanMugen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:11 am

theriusDR3 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:30 am
Recently Nyck de Vries was the latest victim of young driver from F2 failed for F1 graduation
I remember when it was the Formula 3000 drivers like Wirdheim, Junqueira and Minassian who were failing to graduate. :D

Having the (2016) F1 tyres in F2 helps a lot for preparing for F1, compared to the Avons used in F3000.

I think it is quite usual and nothing remarkable. The problem is the variable field quality in F2, as the field is constantly changing and reigning champions are not permitted to defend their title.

My solution:
  • Make F2 a higher profile class with viable commercial sponsorship and paid drivers.
  • Encourage dropped F1 drivers like Vandoorne and Werhlein to go back to F2, by being able to be paid to race there.
  • Allow champions to continue racing in F2 if they can't find a drive elsewhere.
  • Have guest appearances of F1 drivers in F2, like the second-tier NASCAR series.
  • Have some of the F2 races as high-profile events off the F1 calendar. Brands Hatch, Zandvoort etc.
Having the veterans in the class as a benchmark will improve the quality of the junior graduates, just as it does in Super Formula. Therefore there will be more confidence in the quality of drivers produced by F2 in any given season.
Maritimer wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:31 am
F1 doesnt need to do anything
Sure they do. They should encourage dropped F1 drivers like Vandoorne, Werhlein, Nasr, Sirotkin and Vergne to race in F2 by making it more attractive than Formula E or LMP2.

This will boost the field quality of F2, make F2 a viable place for sponsors who cannot afford F1, and just all round make F2 a big event in it's own right.

Big Tea
67
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by Big Tea » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:40 am

JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:11 am
theriusDR3 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:30 am
Recently Nyck de Vries was the latest victim of young driver from F2 failed for F1 graduation
I remember when it was the Formula 3000 drivers like Wirdheim, Junqueira and Minassian who were failing to graduate. :D

Having the (2016) F1 tyres in F2 helps a lot for preparing for F1, compared to the Avons used in F3000.

I think it is quite usual and nothing remarkable. The problem is the variable field quality in F2, as the field is constantly changing and reigning champions are not permitted to defend their title.

My solution:
  • Make F2 a higher profile class with viable commercial sponsorship and paid drivers.
  • Encourage dropped F1 drivers like Vandoorne and Werhlein to go back to F2, by being able to be paid to race there.
  • Allow champions to continue racing in F2 if they can't find a drive elsewhere.
  • Have guest appearances of F1 drivers in F2, like the second-tier NASCAR series.
  • Have some of the F2 races as high-profile events off the F1 calendar. Brands Hatch, Zandvoort etc.
Having the veterans in the class as a benchmark will improve the quality of the junior graduates, just as it does in Super Formula. Therefore there will be more confidence in the quality of drivers produced by F2 in any given season.
Maritimer wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:31 am
F1 doesnt need to do anything
Sure they do. They should encourage dropped F1 drivers like Vandoorne, Werhlein, Nasr, Sirotkin and Vergne to race in F2 by making it more attractive than Formula E or LMP2.

This will boost the field quality of F2, make F2 a viable place for sponsors who cannot afford F1, and just all round make F2 a big event in it's own right.
I see what you are saying, and agree to some extent, but this would block the ladder for new drivers. It would not 'cure' the problem (if indeed it is a problem) just hide it by slowing the flow.
What is needed is a viable alternative to F1 as the top of the tree.

There is talk of shortening the F1 weekend and also having more races. Is this the perfect opportunity to establish another series for 'F1 qualified' drivers to race on Saturday? The crowd would have a good day watching practice and this new spec then F1 qualli on Sat and and F1 race on Sunday. If it was high enough profile it could even fill in the blank weekends between F1 races to stop people wandering off to other sports.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

DChemTech
5
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:31 am
Location: Delft, NL

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by DChemTech » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:54 am

It's not really a problem in which F1 is obligated to take action, but yeah, it would be good if at least the f2 champion had a shot at f1. One of the issues may be money; a second rank f2/3 driver with money is more likely to make it into F1 than the champion if he has no proper backers. So one option would be to reward the F2 champion with financial backing for an F1 seat for one year. Also more teams on the F1 grid would help - with 12 teams or so, 2 or 3 seats should on average be available each year.

Just_a_fan
492
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by Just_a_fan » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:06 pm

hollus wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:46 am
F1 has only 20 seats.
There is an argument for larger grids. It's only really the unrealistically high costs of F1 that keeps the grid to 20 cars. Of five teams asked to have places, the FIA would be happy to have 30 car grids, no doubt. Bigger grids would bring more racing too.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Fulcrum
103
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:05 pm

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by Fulcrum » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:17 pm

The exceptional drivers progress through the ranks, with few exceptions.

Also, because talent scouting has become so much more efficient, and proficient, at identifying top talent really early, the best talents tend to be identified, and signed, by the top teams before they get into F2.

marmer
34
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:48 am

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by marmer » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:50 am

not sure there is an issue. f1 is the celing of motorsport you have plenty of top drivers how many seats do you want taken by f2 drivers.

since gp2 started in 2005 including the new f2 the only drivers not to make f1 race seats that won a title where davide valsecchi and fabio leimer. personally i don't think thats bad going every winning driver has made it since 2013.
the only drivers that have finished in the top 3 in a season not to make f1 are. Alexandre Prémat (06) Luca Filippi(11) Luiz Razia(12) Sam Bird(13 James Calado(13) Artem Markelov(17) Oliver Rowland(17)
almost all of these drivers had at least a test drive. also some of the seasons where the top 3 didn't make it drivers from lower down the championship where picked so its not like its impossible. out of the drivers above listed i personally had only heard of sam bird markelov and rowland so its not like they are world beaters these days or in their day. going back in the list of f1 seasons and looking at line ups the only drives that would have been somewhat open would have been some of the worst back of the grid cars or any seat that pastor maladonado was occuping

Jolle
158
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by Jolle » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:12 am

Half of the grid has driven/won in GP2/Formula 2, so it's working alright I guess. The other half came trough Renault 3.5, F3 or GP3.

It's more worrying for some drivers, that if you aren't picked up by a junior program around your first year of open wheel racing, you probably won't have a chance to get to F1.

The only drivers, currently on the grid, not to have been a member of a program are Raikkonen, Stroll and Bottas.

Raikkonen was so quickly promoted to F1 that ink from a junior contract wouldn't dry fast enough...
Stroll has a good dad
Bottas was part of Wolff's group, so more or less a Mercedes Junior.

DChemTech
5
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:31 am
Location: Delft, NL

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by DChemTech » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:59 am

Good point Jolle,
In addition to that, current F1 doesn't seem to be very kind to 'late performers' in general. You need to perform before your 20th birthday it seems - if you ripen a bit later and excel around 23, 24, odds of making F1 are seemingly slim. Which is a shame - Mansell was 27 when he came to the grid and took quite some years even then to perform, but perform he did.

marmer
34
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:48 am

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by marmer » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:36 am

I actually think a real issue with f2 is allowing older drivers to hang around a bit too long 2 seasons should be the limit to keep new talent coming up. You don't want older drivers staying in f2 forever until they win a championship. Nor do you want F1 drivers dropping back down.
Perhaps you could have a reward system for f2 in that the top ten in the championship as it stands each round would be to force the F1 teams to pick a driver and give them a fp1 the following race where F1 and f2 happen on the same weekend. Giving ten drivers a practice session a race weekend that have earned it. Not picking a driver or not running enough laps would be punishable in team championship point deductions if seen to be avoiding using the young driver

NathanOlder
120
User avatar
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:47 pm

Also if you encourage drivers like Vergne, Werhlein, Vandoorne ect to go back to F2, then we have a thread titled 'Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays'

I dont think there is anything wrong, the best will usually get to F1, its not like there has been mega talent overlooked.

Vandoorne , Vergne, Wehrlein, Nasr ect all had chances in F1.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

Does anyone play F1 2019 on Ps4, Now setting up a league at

https://rapidpixelracing.com

JordanMugen
20
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Many young drivers from F2 are struggling for F1 graduation nowadays

Post by JordanMugen » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:58 am

marmer wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:36 am
I actually think a real issue with f2 is allowing older drivers to hang around a bit too long 2 seasons should be the limit to keep new talent coming up. You don't want older drivers staying in f2 forever until they win a championship. Nor do you want F1 drivers dropping back down.
Why not? Wouldn't it better to have big name drivers in F2 to increase the profile of the class?

This way F2 drivers and teams could find actual commercial sponsorship.