Did Schumacher get aggressive because of Senna?

[Wass85]

Just watching some early footage of Schumacher in the early Benetton years and surprised to see how fair a driver he was when he first arrived on the scene.

He never really went for risky overtakes and didn't really employ the Schumi chop at all. I know he had a few incidents with Senna and can recall him complaining about the Brazilians dangerous driving.

I think he learned a lot from Senna and probably got his ruthless streak from the Brazilian, thoughts?

[Sombrero]

Not sure about that. Ask Mika Hakkinen about Macao 1990 F-3 Grand Prix…

[strad]

Basically Senna started all this over aggressive driving we see today.
Go back to his F2 racing. When they let him get away with his antics it started the whole ball rolling. Michael just perfected it.

[Big Tea]

Basically Senna started all this over aggressive driving we see today.
Go back to his F2 racing. When they let him get away with his antics it started the whole ball rolling. Michael just perfected it.

It also seems to have bloomed at around the same time safety became the big issue. Previously and foolhardy and over aggressive driving was automatically punished by the result. As cars became ever safer to have accidents in so the boundaries widened.

[NathanOlder]

I don't remember Senna being that aggressive in 92 and 93. So I can't see Schumacher learning first hand from Senna's aggression.

[Wass85]

You can see how passive he was in F1 during his early years. Something clicked though and he became really ruthless. Whether that was down to Senna or not who knows but he surely had an affect on Schumacher IMO.

[strad]

Senna was aggressive from day one in FF.
If you really have doubt read Chris Hiltons "Senna the hard edge of genius" and that's a book that fawns on Senna. Or the prologue of Senna vs Prost "
Alain Prost.. the intelligent ,smooth driver...
Ayrton Senna the mercurial kid from a privileged background who would become the most intense and ruthless racing driver the world had ever seen...
.
Senna was indeed a truly great driver but he was also indeed a ruthless win at all cost driver.

[strad]

As cars became ever safer to have accidents in so the boundaries widened.

Yes to the point where Jenson Button after totally destroying his car hitting the barrier after the Monaco tunnel climbed out without a scratch only to say I then saw how far I could actually push it without getting hurt which told me I could push the limits even further.
Or Lewis Hamilton to say I'm totally safe in the car.
.
Which brings us into a very dangerous stage where driver make crazy divebomb moves and extremely dangerous passing attempts.

[Wass85]

I always wonder what would have happened between the pair and who would have dominated had Senna lived. I suspect things may have turned very nasty and downright dangerous.

[strad]

When the perception is that it's totally safe it's actually very dangerous.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Basically Senna started all this over aggressive driving we see today.
Go back to his F2 racing. When they let him get away with his antics it started the whole ball rolling. Michael just perfected it.

Prost intentionally crashed into Senna in Japan 89 and before that Prost drove Senna into the grass on one of the Estoril 88 starts, almost causing a RoGro type pileup. Point the finger accordingly.

[Wass85]

Even by today's standards Senna and Co in the early 90's looked very soft in their defensive driving. You see countless passes for the lead where the driver ahead doesn't even try and defend the pass. I guess it's because of the safety of the cars, you just couldn't put yourself at risk back in those days because of the threat of death.

[Just_a_fan]

I think he learned a lot from Senna and probably got his ruthless streak from the Brazilian, thoughts?

Or maybe he wasn't that great a wheel to wheel driver and so had to resort to bullying tactics? Or maybe being given the 94 title after deliberately driving in to Hill made him realise he could get away with stuff so he kept doing it?

To blame Senna is a little harsh. Hamilton idolised Senna but doesn't do the stuff that Schumacher did, for example.

What's interesting is to see the parallels between Schumacher and Vestappen. Both the "exciting new blood" of their day, the widely declared champions of the future, and both given leeway when behaving badly. Both then carried on with their tactics. Schumacher, even when not really in contention for anything, did right to the end.

[Just_a_fan]

Even by today's standards Senna and Co in the early 90's looked very soft in their defensive driving. You see countless passes for the lead where the driver ahead doesn't even try and defend the pass. I guess it's because of the safety of the cars, you just couldn't put yourself at risk back in those days because of the threat of death.

I think it's the safety of the formative formulae that have caused this. Back then, the junior stuff was still fairly basic where today's young guns have grown up in cars that are F1-level safe. So they do silly stuff from the start because they walk away from ridiculous accidents. Spa, of course, being the exception.

The Ralt that Senna and Brundle raced in F3 was still a riveted aluminium chassis. Crash that at speed and you're looking at serious injury. The F1 cars at the time were carbon composite and whilst nowhere near as safe as today, they were better than the aluminium chassis cars most of the time. (For an example of the difference between the CF chassis of today and back in the day, look at Johnny Herbert's 1988 F3000 accident that almost cost him his feet. The front of the chassis disappeared. I don't remember Herbert doing dangerous moves à la Schumacher.)

[Wass85]

I think he learned a lot from Senna and probably got his ruthless streak from the Brazilian, thoughts?

Or maybe he wasn't that great a wheel to wheel driver and so had to resort to bullying tactics? Or maybe being given the 94 title after deliberately driving in to Hill made him realise he could get away with stuff so he kept doing it?

To blame Senna is a little harsh. Hamilton idolised Senna but doesn't do the stuff that Schumacher did, for example.

What's interesting is to see the parallels between Schumacher and Vestappen. Both the "exciting new blood" of their day, the widely declared champions of the future, and both given leeway when behaving badly. Both then carried on with their tactics. Schumacher, even when not really in contention for anything, did right to the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzpYilkKrA

It's not a case of blaming Senna just whether he influenced Schumacher in to driving like he did. He looked way more lenient in his early F1 days and then by 94 he had shown his ruthless streak when he almost certainly crashed in to Hill on purpose.