So what will F1 teams do this year?

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JonoNic
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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holeindalip wrote:
AJI wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:23 am
bosyber wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:38 am
On the other hand, Honda, while they felt they had to withdraw last time, also felt it was a defeat; added to that the difficult McLaren years and them only now feeling competent and capable of being competitive, they have something to prove both on the race track and off it.
They've proven they can produce a race winning PU. A championship would be nice, but it's not as bad as the noughties

Mercedes is in a different situation, but to be seen to abandon a series over something like this, I don't think that would be a great PR image for them either.
It's not abandonment, it's a logical business decision. HPP could still supply PU's, if the series still exists...

Red Bull, well, they might, but it would still look like throwing toys out of the pram as they can clearly afford it; I don't think that they would go.
I disagree. The fact they can't market their product isn't their fault.

Clearly, we will have to see how the year goes, and it might be very tough for quite a few teams...

No races = no marketing. ROI for sponsors has a definitive answer for the first time ever, it's zero. This is bad.
Prize money is based on income. Let's just assume they run the minimum number of races for a WDC/WCC, so, 8. I'm guessing that's somewhere in the realm of 40% of projected income...

CFD stuff can be done from home, I suspect; and with presumably less testing, it will be freed up a bit - might very well be redirected to 2021.
Another reason to defer the rule change to 2022. It's not fair for the small teams.
deferring the rule change to 2022 would be even worse, you would give the big 3 two years to work on those cars before even hitting the track
Is the rule change independent of the cost cap? What if the cost cap is implemented in 2021 and the rule change in 2022?
Always find the gap then use it.

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Big Tea
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:16 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:06 pm
Most of the small teams will have to fight to stay afloat I guess. Hundreds of people who need to get paid each month. Good chance that teams like Williams will have to let a whole bunch of people go for the coming months to cut costs
Why? They don't get paid to turn up at each race. They get money from sponsors and they get end-of-season reward for their place in the constructors' championship.

I would be very surprised if a sponsor decided to pull out of a deal on the back of the current international medical situation. That wouldn't be good PR at all, would it?

So why will Williams suddenly be laying people off?
Sponsors cough up on the strength of being seen for X hours over the year, be it on the car or driver.
If the name does not get screened, you can bet there will be many asking for an 'adjustment in their favour'.
If this will be on a race by race basis or if there can be some rescheduling later in the year, you can bet it will be less than the teams planned on
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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JonoNic wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:25 pm
holeindalip wrote:
AJI wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:23 am

They've proven they can produce a race winning PU. A championship would be nice, but it's not as bad as the noughties



It's not abandonment, it's a logical business decision. HPP could still supply PU's, if the series still exists...



I disagree. The fact they can't market their product isn't their fault.



No races = no marketing. ROI for sponsors has a definitive answer for the first time ever, it's zero. This is bad.
Prize money is based on income. Let's just assume they run the minimum number of races for a WDC/WCC, so, 8. I'm guessing that's somewhere in the realm of 40% of projected income...



Another reason to defer the rule change to 2022. It's not fair for the small teams.
deferring the rule change to 2022 would be even worse, you would give the big 3 two years to work on those cars before even hitting the track
Is the rule change independent of the cost cap? What if the cost cap is implemented in 2021 and the rule change in 2022?
but the big 3 still can dump unlimited resources right now into them and whatever the cost cap is next year...

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Lotus102 wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:48 am
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:25 am
That's what they'll do! Another showcase of awful decisions if they manage to hold the 2021 cars back to 2022!
No need to get on with the 2020 season if we can't! Just try to race in as many venues as possible until December 10-15th wherever we can and then go ahead with 2021! I am hopeful that the corona virus situation will get better mid to end of summer!
That’s overoptimistic IMO. The virus could be with us for a couple of years. F1 has already messed up through underestimating the seriousness of the situation, and planning for things to be more or less back to normal by the summer could just mean that a load more plans just have to be ditched. It might lead to fewer races, not more, as you could run into last minute cancellations again. I suspect sponsors, having paid up on the expectation of a full ‘2020 season’ would not be happy with F1 partially ditching this year in order to keep next year as normal. And something is going to have to be done to help the teams keep costs down, delaying the introduction of a new set of regs is an excellent way to do that
2 years?? 2 years of quarantines and everything closed or cancelled?? That would be a disaster for the economy...many people through their own businesses will just go bankrupt!

I don't think so and i don't hope so of course...basing my opinion on what experts write and say! China's infections have already plateaued and that's a positive sign i think! With the measures taken from all countries of self quarantining people i think we will manage to get the situation under control until a drug is out!

Hopefully... :? :oops:
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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Phil
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Except i am unsure if the numbers out of China can be trusted... i’d look to Europe to see how things unfold here for accurate numbers on how society is dealing with it and what is being achieved. IMO of course.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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ESPImperium
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Here is my solution, and possible calendar for the solution.

* Super-Season, we do a super season over about 18 months
* Suspension of the 2021 regulations till 2022
* Summer Break is canceled for next two seasons
* We use these present cars for 18 months
* Power unit regulations get doubled (allow the use of 8 of each element and 6 of the ES and CE units)
* Drivers sign a contract to cover them for the whole super season
* Use of more triple headers, in a smart way
* Double Header end of the super season, two GP in one weekend - Reverse Grid second race
* Each event will feature twice, barring Monaco, who gets a special returning stipulation
* Teams would get the rule on limits on the amount of personnel at a race weekend lifted by 10 to give them more lea way on mechanics, but the curfew would be more restrictive. Teams can break 10 curfews however.
* The year of 2021 would see the teams start to be assessed under the F1 Financial Rules, in order to give the teams a level playing field into 2022.
* Teams would have a wind tunnel, CFD and Simulator ban on the 2022 car regulations. No development, or new development can start till October 1st 2020
* FOM would have to financially support all the teams and promotors over this time. They need to take a hit, as they can't just make a profit whilst everyone else makes a loss.
* Pirelli would keep the 2019 spec tyres for the eternity of this season, and as the teams became closer to the edge with aero developments, the stops per race may even become 2 or 3 as deg would be increased.
* This would affect F2, and F3 seasons as well as other support seasons like Porsche Super Cup and W Series

Calendar:
2020
1) June 7 - Baku, Azerbijan
2) June 21 - Paul Riccard, France
3) June 28 - Silverstone, UK
4) July 5 - Zandvoort, Netherlands
5) July 19 - Red Bull Ring, Austria
6) July 26 - Hungaroring, Hungary
7) August 2 - Circuit de Catalunia, Spain (Tyre torture test)
8) August 16 - Spa, Belgum
9) August 23 - Monza, Italy
10) September 6 - Singapore, Singapore
11) September 13 - Socchi, Russia
12) Septeber 27 - Hanoi, Vietnam (This could be a bit of a wet one)
13) October 11 - Shanghai, China (This could be a bit of a wet one)
14) October 25 - Suzuka, Japan
15) November 8 - Montreal, Canada (This may be a bit of a colder one)
16) November 15 - Austin, USA
17) November 29 - Mexico City, Mexico City
18) December 6 - Interlagos, Brazil

Winter Break 2021 - No testing allowed

19) February 14 - Melbourne, Australia
20) February 21 - Bahrain, Bahrain
21) March 7 - Shanghai, China
22) March 21 - Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
23) April 4 - Zandvoort, Netherlands
24) April 18 - Paul Riccard, France
25) April 25 - Circuit De Catalunia, Spain ( 3 day Young Driver Test after)

4 Week Spiring Break - Woo Hoo

26) May 23 - Monaco, Monaco (as it was omitted for 2020, it will be given a double pints status)
27) June 6 - Montreal, Canada
28) June 13 - Mexico City, Mexico City
29) June 27 - Red Bull Ring, Austria
30) June 4 - Silverstone, UK
31) July 20 - Hungaroring, Hungary (3 day Young Driver Test after)

Summer Break - Development ban on the current cars comes into place.

32) August 29 - Spa, Belgum
33) September 5 - Monza, Italy
34) September 19 - Singapore, Singapore
35) September 26 - Socchi, Russia
36) October 10 - Suzuka, Japan
38) October 24 - Austin, USA
39) November 7 - Sao Palo, Brazil
40) November 21 - Bahrain, Bahrain
41) November 27 - Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
42) November 28 - Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi (reverse grid race - 2 Day Young Driver Test after)

All that is if we get onto the top of it by June this year, and that is a bloody big if. And the other, if other countries were going through a first wave or second or even third wave of it. This is our war, a war we must win, until then F1 is unimportant.

AJI
AJI
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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deferring the rule change to 2022 would be even worse, you would give the big 3 two years to work on those cars before even hitting the track
Is the rule change independent of the cost cap? What if the cost cap is implemented in 2021 and the rule change in 2022?
but the big 3 still can dump unlimited resources right now into them and whatever the cost cap is next year...
Realistically, why would anyone in their right mind spend a single cent on anything in F1 right now?
The first 3 races are officially gone, no one knows how many more will be affected, F1 has been almost inaccessible for casual viewers for years and is now totally inaccessible for hard core fans, the Concorde agreement is up, political correctness has diluted the rawness of the sport, EV is the future, millennials don't care about cars, climate change is happening...
I could go on, but this series has been living on borrowed time from the beginning of the PU era. Covid-19 could easily be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Jolle
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:16 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:06 pm
Most of the small teams will have to fight to stay afloat I guess. Hundreds of people who need to get paid each month. Good chance that teams like Williams will have to let a whole bunch of people go for the coming months to cut costs
Why? They don't get paid to turn up at each race. They get money from sponsors and they get end-of-season reward for their place in the constructors' championship.

I would be very surprised if a sponsor decided to pull out of a deal on the back of the current international medical situation. That wouldn't be good PR at all, would it?

So why will Williams suddenly be laying people off?
For the sponsors it’s all about the contract in place, what they say, what clauses are in them. Good chance lots of them have result base systems and/or tied in with exposure and presence on track and in the paddock. As for the teams, lots of work can be halted. Of course the members of the racing team, catering but also production in the case of the small teams. The cars are finished, spare parts are in stock. Even at the engine side, with this delay for months, new PU’s aren’t introduced in months.

Racing teams, especially a team like Williams is a business. They can loose a couple of million less to send half their staf home for a couple of months.

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Pyrone89
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Well I dont think Mercedes or Red Bull are going to sit idle. They are going all out to respectively keep or increase their advantage (Merc) or try to close those last couple of tenths (Red Bull). Same for Honda. Might even go faster without the ‘interuption’ of races and the preperation involved in that which normally takes time (track specific parts have to be designed and build normally, setup work in simulator etc.) they can now focus fully on developments and start the season in june with a big chassis, suspension and engine upgrade,
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

AJI
AJI
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:32 am
Well I dont think Mercedes or Red Bull are going to sit idle. They are going all out to respectively keep or increase their advantage (Merc) or try to close those last couple of tenths (Red Bull). Same for Honda. Might even go faster without the ‘interuption’ of races and the preperation involved in that which normally takes time (track specific parts have to be designed and build normally, setup work in simulator etc.) they can now focus fully on developments and start the season in june with a big chassis, suspension and engine upgrade,
Hmmm, race weekends are the ideal real world test scenario. Without them you have no data, so why would anyone develop anything until you can correlate?

Rodak
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Reading many of these comments I think quite a few F1 fans don't understand how this disease is fundamentally changing our world. Italy is an example of how the medical system can be overwhelmed; triage is taking place to decide who will live and who will die. In the United States we are seeing just the very beginning of the same thing and I have no idea how it will end. At a minimum there will be a huge economic shakeup and probably a world wide depression. In Italy there have been 17,000 cases and 1,300 deaths; hospitals are unable to treat all patients and the real problem is that the case load is increasing exponentially. What this means is that there is not a steady constant increase, but that each increase feeds of the previous increase. This will get way worse before it gets better, and to talk about running Formula One races is just stupid.

I'm not being alarmist, I'm simply presenting facts about the spread of this disease and the consequences for all of us. In Iran there are aerial photos of mass graves. In Italy bodies are not being removed for burial. Yes, F1 is a great sport and fun to watch, which I have been doing for many years, but right now the reality is that there will be no F1 season this year. All these suggestions that we race at Silverstone without spectators or whatever are deaf to what is actually going on.

I live in Yakima, Washington, about 150 miles from Seattle. We have detected three cases in Yakima which means there are probably hundreds of cases. Public schools will be closed next week in an attempt to get in front of the spread and slow it down so hospitals will not be overwhelmed; I suspect this will not work. Grocery stores are stripped bare as people try to prepare for they don't know what. Our President is an idiot muddying the waters. No one is in charge. There will not be a GP in Austin this year.

And here you are, suggesting that there be some sort of F1 season without spectators. Get an understanding of what is happening and forget F1. I am sure there will be snide comments telling me to calm down, etc. I am calm and I am disgusted at the feelings expressed on this site that F1 must go on. F1 doesn't matter at all, it's entertainment. There are many people who's lives are going to be changed forever for the worse in the very near future and you care about F1 races? Grow up.

geogate
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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I fully grasp the seriousness of what is going on, but the economy matters - people being able to work and earn money matters. Its a balance. That is the reason why countries have been seemingly "slow" to declare travel bans and such like. Many countries will have lockdowns such as in Italy, but it has to be timed properly. And if you think that is cold hearted, it isnt. Those mass graves are going to be a lot bigger if they do not give consideration to the economy

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Rodak wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:33 am
There are many people who's lives are going to be changed forever for the worse in the very near future and you care about F1 races? Grow up.
The vast majority's lives will not be altered in the slightest once they get over the symptoms. Life will go on and the future beckons us onwards. Stop feeding the "sky is falling in" hysteria. :wink:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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JordanMugen
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:50 am
What else are they going to do?
Full steam ahead designing and (virtually) testing the 2021 car.

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JordanMugen
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Re: So what will F1 teams do this year?

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Rodak wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:33 am
the real problem is that the case load is increasing exponentially.
The case rate slows down after the initial exponential growth of course(Figure 1, Halloran et al. 2008). You are quite right that it is very important to act decisively and fast however, to slow the spread of the virus and minimise the number of people who get it... be more like St Louis and less like Pittsburg.

Image
Figure 1. 1918 case study.
https://www.pnas.org/content/105/12/4639


Figure 2. Coronavirus initial case rates in Europe (Handley, 2020).