Limit live data transfer during race

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NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Limit live data transfer during race

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Every car is generating gigabytes of data every lap they run on track. Most data is sent live to the team HQ, where a few hundred engineers are analyzing it and use it calculate the best strategy, target speed, settings, etc for each race.

How much cost can be saved, if that live link was reduced of cut totally and teams can only analyze after the race? It is great for development, bu not really exciting for us viewers.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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How much do you pay the FIA / Liberty to watch F1?
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Ringleheim
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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I would love to see the telemetry data sent from the cars to the pits cut greatly. Would make this more interesting, not less interesting.

The "perfection" of the sport as it now exists is what makes things boring.

The best races are the strange ones when unusual, unpredictable things occur, out of dumb luck.

Everything is too "known" now for most races to be interesting.

And the cars are WAY too reliable. Unreliability used to be a major contributor to interesting, unpredictable races.

Xwang
Xwang
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Ringleheim wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:03 pm
I would love to see the telemetry data sent from the cars to the pits cut greatly. Would make this more interesting, not less interesting.

The "perfection" of the sport as it now exists is what makes things boring.

The best races are the strange ones when unusual, unpredictable things occur, out of dumb luck.

Everything is too "known" now for most races to be interesting.

And the cars are WAY too reliable. Unreliability used to be a major contributor to interesting, unpredictable races.
I agree with you.
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Greg Locock
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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We used to joke about this with solar car racing - why do we let the driver control the speed of the car, those of us in the strategy car should have command of the cruise control.

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Big Tea
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Or the other option, make everything available to everyone. Teams and viewers. We get to see the grubby bits, so do the other teams. Should cut it down a lot
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Hoffman900
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Most series restrict this outside of testing. Pit to driver communication is limited to when to pit and positions to competitors via spotters. Motorcycle series mostly ban all pit to rider communication except pit boards.

All has the effect of putting control in the drivers which also makes them more apt to make mistakes and add unpredictability, which adds excitement.

It would likely push the age of the drivers up a bit as it reward experience vs. a fast young driver just clicking off target lap times at the behest of the team of engineers back at HQ.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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MotoGP have the message system now, they have a read out on the dash so the pits can send them messages during the race.
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JordanMugen
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:38 pm
Or the other option, make everything available to everyone. Teams and viewers. We get to see the grubby bits, so do the other teams. Should cut it down a lot
FOM should already be able to make speed trace overlays of different competitors using the existing GPS data (like all the teams make for themselves) but they don't. :roll:

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henry
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Data isn’t information. They would need to add in lots of processing to present the data in the ways such as @JordenMugen suggests. I don’t think there are that many people who are interested.
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Mamba
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Ringleheim wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:03 pm
I would love to see the telemetry data sent from the cars to the pits cut greatly. Would make this more interesting, not less interesting.

The "perfection" of the sport as it now exists is what makes things boring.

The best races are the strange ones when unusual, unpredictable things occur, out of dumb luck.

Everything is too "known" now for most races to be interesting.

And the cars are WAY too reliable. Unreliability used to be a major contributor to interesting, unpredictable races.
This is exactly why we need to ban data transfer. Log it on a computer and analyse afterwards if need be. With all these sensors there is no unpredictability. Everything from tyre temperatures to gearbox vibrations are monitored.

The overtaking quantity may not have been a huge amount in past decades but the unpredictability of it provided the excitement of the unknown. Look at wet races. They are even slower than full tank dry weather races but it is easy to make a mistake and slip off causing unpredictability. Fans want unpredictability. Just look back over this season thus far. The best race by far was Austria 1 where nobody knew who will even finish the race and in what order.

So in short I'd say - absolutely ban live data transmission.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Not everybody seems to understand. There are several hundred engineers looking at the temps of 20 sets of tyres every race. Another hundred for ride height and suspension travel, etc.

If a team is looking for plan B or plan C, those hundred engineers are calculating the outcome of the disission for every chose.

feni_remmen
feni_remmen
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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I've long wanted a ban on teams having access to car data from Friday morning through to Sunday night.
My question is, does this just escalate costs and increase the advantages of the big teams? After all they'll be the teams most able to try and real-time simulate the performances on track and attempt to get simulated data for what they can't directly access...
Irrespective of this answer, I still want the teams and drivers working without data for the weekend. Especially tyre temps and pressures.

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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feni_remmen wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:46 pm
I've long wanted a ban on teams having access to car data from Friday morning through to Sunday night.
My question is, does this just escalate costs and increase the advantages of the big teams? After all they'll be the teams most able to try and real-time simulate the performances on track and attempt to get simulated data for what they can't directly access...
Irrespective of this answer, I still want the teams and drivers working without data for the weekend. Especially tyre temps and pressures.
They should be allowed data, they just can’t have access to it until after the session or they can’t relay it to the driver while on track.

No matter what you do, the most well funded teams should be at the front. They could race soap box cars and Mercedes would still likely be at the front. Winning is a mindset and the best use of your resources, which Mercedes does.

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Limit live data transfer during race

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:50 pm
feni_remmen wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:46 pm
I've long wanted a ban on teams having access to car data from Friday morning through to Sunday night.
My question is, does this just escalate costs and increase the advantages of the big teams? After all they'll be the teams most able to try and real-time simulate the performances on track and attempt to get simulated data for what they can't directly access...
Irrespective of this answer, I still want the teams and drivers working without data for the weekend. Especially tyre temps and pressures.
They should be allowed data, they just can’t have access to it until after the session or they can’t relay it to the driver while on track.

No matter what you do, the most well funded teams should be at the front. They could race soap box cars and Mercedes would still likely be at the front. Winning is a mindset and the best use of your resources, which Mercedes does.
IMHO there should be no radio communication from pit to car (only board messages) and no data send in both direction over the air. So until the car is on the track no data can be downloaded, but once it returns to the pit data can be downloaded. This should increment the unpredictability and pilots will have to drive alone and solve issues by themselves as they used to do.
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