Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
NathanOlder
158
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

As we have a long wait to the next race that I struggle to get excited for as Sochi is not the best (even though we have LeMans at the weekend) I thought I'd pick your minds on how you rank the current 20 drivers , on their current level (i know its impossible to forget what they have acheived so I guess that has some input) in your opinion. A simple list, personal opinions just for fun.

1. Hamilton
2. Vertsappen
3. Leclerc
4. Ricciardo
5. Sainz
6. Bottas
7. Vettel
8. Perez
9. Russell
10. Norris
11. Ocon
12. Gasly
13. Stroll
14. Kimi
15. Albon
16. Kvyat
17. KMag
18. Grosjean
19. Giovinazzi
20. Latifi

Would be interesting to see a few more opinions and gather an average table to see how the drivers stack up.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

User avatar
Big Tea
125
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:15 pm
As we have a long wait to the next race that I struggle to get excited for as Sochi is not the best (even though we have LeMans at the weekend) I thought I'd pick your minds on how you rank the current 20 drivers , on their current level (i know its impossible to forget what they have acheived so I guess that has some input) in your opinion. A simple list, personal opinions just for fun.

1. Hamilton
2. Vertsappen
3. Leclerc
4. Ricciardo
5. Sainz
6. Bottas
7. Vettel
8. Perez
9. Russell
10. Norris
11. Ocon
12. Gasly
13. Stroll
14. Kimi
15. Albon
16. Kvyat
17. KMag
18. Grosjean
19. Giovinazzi
20. Latifi

Would be interesting to see a few more opinions and gather an average table to see how the drivers stack up.
I would put Bottas higher along with Vettel. and Perez maybe a little lower.

The one that foxes me is Albon. He could easily be 4 or just as easily be 14.

Top 3 just have to be
1. Hamilton
2. Vertsappen
3. Leclerc.

From there down it changes week to week. Kimi has to have a place, but...

Russell, I have no idea. I put him in with Albon
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

epo
epo
-13
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:57 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

1 VerSTappen
2 Leclerc (or perhaps on par with Max)
3 Hamilton (sorry he didn't prove anything in his Mercedes years as with Bottas on his side, yeah everyone would beat Bottas).

Rest idk, but Perez and Sainz definitely lower, has been beaten by every teammate he had. Bottas way lower, can only be fast in one lap, no race craft.

User avatar
NathanOlder
158
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

I have Russell above Norris as he did beat him consistently in F2 anf has impressed in F1 along with Lando.

Albon, beaten by Kvyat in their time together, and not looked good at all at RedBull.
Bottas and Perez are where they are as I cant put them below the likes or Ocon Gasly and co.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

Sevach
Sevach
876
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Agree on the top 4.
That's the only thing the feels clear for me.

Sainz, Bottas, Vettel, Perez, Gasly, Norris it will all variate on how confident they are at the moment.

Russel might be Leclerc's league already or be in that second class it's hard to gage, due to his car and perhaps inept teammate(he wasn't terrible in F2, kinda mixed with Albon, Norris).

DChemTech
DChemTech
41
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:31 am
Location: Delft, NL

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Always an interesting topic of speculation. I'll post them in tiers, because I find it very difficult to discriminate one to one, and I'll use some aggregation of recent seasons - not necessarily how they perform this season (after all, the question is driver ability, not performance. and ability is better reflected over some timespan)

Tier 1: top of the line
Lewis Hamilton
Max Verstappen.
Not much explanation needed, I suppose.

Tier 2: Those that many times were, or almost certainly will be
Seb Vettel: Scoring on this season alone, he would be lower, of course. But he still is a 4x world champion. However, the longer he stays driving cars he's not really good at driving, the more likely he'll drop to tier 3.
Charles Leclerc: May not be around long enough to judge whether he belongs in 1, 2 or 3, but definitely has been consistent, including in beating a 4x WDC in a good (although unjustly so) as well as (justly) poor car, and rising rather meteorically.

In case we also include recent or upcoming drivers, this tier is where I would categorize Alonso. Although I'm not happy he's coming back - i'd rather see some fresh blood than regurgitated ancients.

Tier 3: Very happy to have (or had) them around
Daniel Ricciardo: Certainly a very good driver, did not always have luck on his side. In tier 3 rather than 2 because his early days were good, but not spectacular. Still has all opportunity to climb there, though.
Kimi Raikonnen:. Eccentric, but has had really good times. He's been around for too long now, though, and is - occasional surprises aside - eroding his legacy.

I'd probably also put Nico Rosberg here.

Tier 4: Wingmans, safe bets, and consistent podium thieves - but unlikely champions
Carlos Sainz: good driver, held his own against Max. Unlucky being at TR right there and then, but sure we will enjoy his drives in years to come.
Sergio Perez: I know there is some hate for him here and there, and think that's unjust. He's there to pick up the podiums when there is an opportunity to. Did not service himself well by going to McLaren when he did, but was a valuable asset for FI in many years that followed. Not so great this year, but then again, RP has not treated him that well, either.
Valtteri Bottas:. Not Rosberg material, he would never beat Hamilton on merit, and will be WDC only if Hamilton bails. Nevertheless, he is a consistent value for Mercedes. Scores points, complains little.
Lando Norris: Still has to prove himself, he may very well climb upwards in years to come - or stay safely in the middle class. We'll see.
George Russell:I've seen too little of him to really judge. Going on F2, he has potential to climb. But for now, I can do nothing else than put him in the middle. You do need to grab points in races like last weekend to rise, though.

In case Nico Hulkenberg comes back, he'll be here. Not as podium-savvy as Perez, but a rather strong baseline.

Tier 5: Field filling material
Esteban Ocon: He was hailed as a top talent by some. IMO, he's not. Too quirky, too provocative in a negative way. But most of all, not fast enough, yet. He has time to change all that, of course, as long as he's around
Lance Stroll: A few years back, I would not have put him here, despite a very occasional decent performance in his first years. Too slow, too messy. But now at RP, he at least shows to be able to drive a car decently, and weird quirks become the exception rather than the rule. So far, doing well against Perez, too. Keep it up, and he may climb to tier 4.
Pierre Gasly: His Monza drive was fine, and this season generally good. But overall, so far, he's no more than field filling. As for nearly all in this tier, if he sticks around and does well, I might very well rank him in [4] later. But not yet.
Alex Albon: Replace race win with a podium, and all that was written for Gasly, applies for Albon. He seems a nice guy, that's not bad to have around, but is unlikely to make the cut in the long run.
Kevin Magnussen: Around for a substantial time, but in contrast to his teammate, does not seem to become progressively worse. I'm quite indifferent to whether he stays or goes, but I doubt he will go back to tier 4, where once he might have been - before yet another misguided McLaren adventure.

Tier 6: It's time to go, guys
Daniil Kvyat: He could have made it, but lost it all. From torpedoes to subpar performances against rookie teammates, his is an unfulfilled promise, that will not become a phoenix.
Romain Grosjean: Fast initially, but also furious. Perhaps some similarity to Kvyat there, although his decline after was slower. Slower, but going on for a few years too many now. It's time to stop driving and start cooking.

Tier 7: What were you doing here in the first place? People that have money, or the country of Italy, on their side
Nicholas Latifi: He is where Stroll was a few years ago. But Stroll, sometimes, surprised. Managed to hold on to a podium, or set a stellar lap in Monza. Latifi... not so much. Okay, this Williams is even worse than Lance's, but I just don't see Latifi climb up. (then again, neither did I see Stroll when he started. Miracles do happen.)
Antonio Giovinazzi: I defended him when he totaled some cars in his China-debut, but 2 years down the road, not much has improved, with Tuscany perhaps as a low point. Some drivers simply don't need more than 2 seasons - or perhaps one - to show they'd better find other hobbies.
Last edited by DChemTech on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
76
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Hamilton
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Leclerc
Vettel
Russel
Norris
Saintz
Raikkonen
Gasly
Albon
Perez
Bottas
Kvyat
Stroll
Magnussen
Ocon
Grosjean
Latifi
Giovinazzi

Verstappen Leclerc Ricciardo Russel Norris to me a new generation with more talent then ever seen before. Quick and very good in close agressive racing without crashing. Only Hamilton is one of the older he can keep up.

Maybe Saintz can join in the future.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
474
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

My Qualifying rankings.

Tier 1 +0.0 to 0.09
HAM
BOT
MAX
LEC
RUS

Tier 2 + 0.1 to 0.25
RIC
NOR
SAI
GRO
HUL
KVY
GAS

Tier 3 0.26 to 0.35
VET
ALB
PER
STR
OCO
RAI
MAG
GIO

Tier 4 0.36 to 0.5
LAT

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

1. Verstappen
2. Leclerc
3. Hamilton/Ricciardo/Russell
4. Bottas
5. I'm past caring.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Valtteri Bottas
3. Max Verstappen
4. Lando Norris
5. Alexander Albon
6. Lance Stroll
7. Daniel Ricciardo
8. Charles Leclerc
9. Sergio Perez
10. Pierre Gasly
11. Carlos Sainz
12. Esteban Ocon
13. Sebastian Vettel
14. Daniil Kvyat
15. Kimi Räikkönen
16. Antonio Giovinazzi
17. Kevin Magnussen
18. Nicholas Latifi
19. George Russell
20. Romain Grosjean


:wink:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
MtthsMlw
855
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:03 pm
1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Valtteri Bottas
3. Max Verstappen
4. Lando Norris
5. Alexander Albon
6. Lance Stroll
7. Daniel Ricciardo
8. Charles Leclerc
9. Sergio Perez
10. Pierre Gasly
11. Carlos Sainz
12. Esteban Ocon
13. Sebastian Vettel
14. Daniil Kvyat
15. Kimi Räikkönen
16. Antonio Giovinazzi
17. Kevin Magnussen
18. Nicholas Latifi
19. George Russell
20. Romain Grosjean


:wink:
Wonder what complex algorithm was used to come up with that list

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

MtthsMlw wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:09 pm


Wonder what complex algorithm was used to come up with that list
It's the only one presented so far without any bias, conscious or otherwise. 8)
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Jolle
Jolle
198
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

The more capitalistic approach:

Mercedes Lewis Hamilton $40m
Ferrari Sebastian Vettel $30m
Red Bull Max Verstappen $25m
Renault Daniel Ricciardo $20m
Ferrari Charles Leclerc $10m
Mercedes Valtteri Bottas $8m
McLaren Carlos Sainz $8m
Racing Point Sergio Perez $8m
Haas Romain Grosjean $7m
Renault Esteban Ocon $5m
Alfa Romeo Kimi Räikkönen $5m
Haas Kevin Magnussen $5m
Racing Point Lance Stroll $3m
Red Bull Alexander Albon $2.5m
McLaren Lando Norris $2m
AlphaTauri Daniil Kvyat $2m
AlphaTauri Pierre Gasly $2m
Alfa Romeo Antonio Giovanazzi $1m
Williams Nicolas Latifi $1m
Williams George Russell $1m

(The current driver salaries. Although I think Russell is getting payed by Mercedes as well...)

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Based on points per salary dollar, Norris is well clear of the field:

Lando Norris 65 2 32.5
Alexander Albon 63 2.5 25.2
Pierre Gasly 43 2 21.5
Lance Stroll 57 3 19
Valtteri Bottas 135 8 16.875
Esteban Ocon 30 5 6
Sergio Perez 44 8 5.5
Carlos Sainz 41 8 5.125
Daniil Kvyat 10 2 5
Charles Leclerc 49 10 4.9
Lewis Hamilton 190 40 4.75
Max Verstappen 110 25 4.4
Daniel Ricciardo 53 20 2.65
Antonio Giovinazzi 2 1 2
Sebastian Vettel 17 30 0.566666667
Kimi Räikkönen 2 5 0.4
Kevin Magnussen 1 5 0.2
Nicholas Latifi 0 1 0
George Russell 0 1 0
Romain Grosjean 0 7 0

Sorry about the formatting, did it all on my phone, including Excel for the calculation.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Scorpaguy
Scorpaguy
17
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

1. Max
2. Ham

Next tier

3. Ric
4. Lec

Next tier

5. Vet
6. Bot

Next tier

8. Kimi
9. Rus

Next tier

10. Norris
11. Albon
12. Sainz
13. Perez
14. Stroll

Next tier

15. Gasley
16. Kvyat
17. KMag
18. Grosjean

Next tier

19. Giovinazzi
20. Latifi