Current driver ability (personal opinion)

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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:03 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:27 pm


Going by their pre-F1 both Russell and Verstappen impressed more, Lewis had a few seasons where he came nowhere in Formula Renault and Formula 3.
Excuse me..... Sorry, I nearly fell off my chair. Am I reading this right ? Max Verstappens 3rd place finish in Euro F3 , is BETTER than Hamilon winning Formula Renault UK, Euro F3, and the GP2 world championship ?? What planet are you from!?

Your comment of "came nowhere in Formula Renault and Euro F3" is a little odd #-o Lewis finished 5th and 3rd in those debut season, and thats classed as 'nowhere'. Max finished 3rd in his debut season, and thats classed as better! What ever you've had, I'd love to have some too please! Come on man, be serious for 1 minute.
Are you for real? Are you actually trying to say 5th is now better than 3rd? πŸ˜‚

Max was clearly the best driver in F3 but lost out on the title due to retiring 8 times whilst Ocon only retired 3 times.

Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?

Your fanaticism is clouding your judgement buddy.
True, Hamilton only won 1 race in 2004 Euro F3 finishing 5th, but he won 15 out of 20 races (75% win rate) in 2005 and won the series.

Max's 10 wins were in a series of 33 races (30% win rate) which got him 3rd place in the series.

You know, just to be factual rather than fanatical. :wink:



Interestingly, Hamilton junior series results (2002 Renault UK - 3rd, 2003 Renault UK - 1st, 2004 F3 - 5th, 2005 F3 - 1st) were a precursor of his early F1 results (2007 - 2nd, 2008 - 1st). Always took a season getting in to it, then won it the next year. GP2 was the only outlier which he won in his only attempt in 2006.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:36 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:03 pm


Excuse me..... Sorry, I nearly fell off my chair. Am I reading this right ? Max Verstappens 3rd place finish in Euro F3 , is BETTER than Hamilon winning Formula Renault UK, Euro F3, and the GP2 world championship ?? What planet are you from!?

Your comment of "came nowhere in Formula Renault and Euro F3" is a little odd #-o Lewis finished 5th and 3rd in those debut season, and thats classed as 'nowhere'. Max finished 3rd in his debut season, and thats classed as better! What ever you've had, I'd love to have some too please! Come on man, be serious for 1 minute.
Are you for real? Are you actually trying to say 5th is now better than 3rd? πŸ˜‚

Max was clearly the best driver in F3 but lost out on the title due to retiring 8 times whilst Ocon only retired 3 times.

Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?

Your fanaticism is clouding your judgement buddy.
True, Hamilton only won 1 race in 2004 Euro F3 finishing 5th, but he won 15 out of 20 races (75% win rate) in 2005 and won the series.

Max's 10 wins were in a series of 33 races (30% win rate) which got him 3rd place in the series.

You know, just to be factual rather than fanatical. :wink:



Interestingly, Hamilton junior series results (2002 Renault UK - 3rd, 2003 Renault UK - 1st, 2004 F3 - 5th, 2005 F3 - 1st) were a precursor of his early F1 results (2007 - 2nd, 2008 - 1st). Always took a season getting in to it, then won it the next year. GP2 was the only outlier which he won in his only attempt in 2006.
I liked how you missed out the point that Verstappen had around 3 times as many retirements as Ocon.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:40 pm
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:36 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 pm


Are you for real? Are you actually trying to say 5th is now better than 3rd? πŸ˜‚

Max was clearly the best driver in F3 but lost out on the title due to retiring 8 times whilst Ocon only retired 3 times.

Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?

Your fanaticism is clouding your judgement buddy.
True, Hamilton only won 1 race in 2004 Euro F3 finishing 5th, but he won 15 out of 20 races (75% win rate) in 2005 and won the series.

Max's 10 wins were in a series of 33 races (30% win rate) which got him 3rd place in the series.

You know, just to be factual rather than fanatical. :wink:



Interestingly, Hamilton junior series results (2002 Renault UK - 3rd, 2003 Renault UK - 1st, 2004 F3 - 5th, 2005 F3 - 1st) were a precursor of his early F1 results (2007 - 2nd, 2008 - 1st). Always took a season getting in to it, then won it the next year. GP2 was the only outlier which he won in his only attempt in 2006.
I liked how you missed out the point that Verstappen had around 3 times as many retirements as Ocon.
I was merely commenting on
Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?
As to the differing retirement numbers between Max and Ocon, were all of the retirements each had purely mechanical failures? Were any the result of contact with other cars / crashes in to the scenery? I must admit to not knowing the answer to that question.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Just_a_fan wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:46 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:40 pm
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:36 pm

True, Hamilton only won 1 race in 2004 Euro F3 finishing 5th, but he won 15 out of 20 races (75% win rate) in 2005 and won the series.

Max's 10 wins were in a series of 33 races (30% win rate) which got him 3rd place in the series.

You know, just to be factual rather than fanatical. :wink:



Interestingly, Hamilton junior series results (2002 Renault UK - 3rd, 2003 Renault UK - 1st, 2004 F3 - 5th, 2005 F3 - 1st) were a precursor of his early F1 results (2007 - 2nd, 2008 - 1st). Always took a season getting in to it, then won it the next year. GP2 was the only outlier which he won in his only attempt in 2006.
I liked how you missed out the point that Verstappen had around 3 times as many retirements as Ocon.
I was merely commenting on
Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?
As to the differing retirement numbers between Max and Ocon, were all of the retirements each had purely mechanical failures? Were any the result of contact with other cars / crashes in to the scenery? I must admit to not knowing the answer to that question.
I would have to research that myself.

And speaking of Hamilton's F3 dominance in 2005, wasn't his teammate also 2nd in that campaign?

Now I'm not saying Sutil was a bad driver but that tells me that maybe that was the best team?

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Here's my 2 penny's worth based purely on this years performance to date...after all its the here and now that counts, not what the driver did 10 years ago!

Lewis
Max
Carlos
Ricardo
Lando
Russel
Gasley
Charles
Botta
Perez
Stroll
Kimi
Kvyat
Ocon
Romain
Albon
Latifi
Kmag
Sebastian
Antonio

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:48 pm
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:46 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:40 pm


I liked how you missed out the point that Verstappen had around 3 times as many retirements as Ocon.
I was merely commenting on
Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?
As to the differing retirement numbers between Max and Ocon, were all of the retirements each had purely mechanical failures? Were any the result of contact with other cars / crashes in to the scenery? I must admit to not knowing the answer to that question.
I would have to research that myself.

And speaking of Hamilton's F3 dominance in 2005, wasn't his teammate also 2nd in that campaign?

Now I'm not saying Sutil was a bad driver but that tells me that maybe that was the best team?
Sutil made it to F1, neither of Max's team mates did, so at least Hamilton's team mate had a bit of talent, unlike Max's team mates. So Hamilton, as so often in his career, had to beat a team mate that wasn't there simply as ballast.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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NathanOlder
157
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:03 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:27 pm


Going by their pre-F1 both Russell and Verstappen impressed more, Lewis had a few seasons where he came nowhere in Formula Renault and Formula 3.
Excuse me..... Sorry, I nearly fell off my chair. Am I reading this right ? Max Verstappens 3rd place finish in Euro F3 , is BETTER than Hamilon winning Formula Renault UK, Euro F3, and the GP2 world championship ?? What planet are you from!?

Your comment of "came nowhere in Formula Renault and Euro F3" is a little odd #-o Lewis finished 5th and 3rd in those debut season, and thats classed as 'nowhere'. Max finished 3rd in his debut season, and thats classed as better! What ever you've had, I'd love to have some too please! Come on man, be serious for 1 minute.
Are you for real? Are you actually trying to say 5th is now better than 3rd? πŸ˜‚

Max was clearly the best driver in F3 but lost out on the title due to retiring 8 times whilst Ocon only retired 3 times.

Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?

Your fanaticism is clouding your judgement buddy.
No no no no no. You said, Pre F1, Max was better than Lewis. That means your saying Maxs 3rd place finish in Euro F3 was better than Lewis winning formula Renault UK, Euro F3 and GP2 (the latter at the first attempt). Max has never won a championship in a single seater, let alone at the first attempt.
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New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:34 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:03 pm


Excuse me..... Sorry, I nearly fell off my chair. Am I reading this right ? Max Verstappens 3rd place finish in Euro F3 , is BETTER than Hamilon winning Formula Renault UK, Euro F3, and the GP2 world championship ?? What planet are you from!?

Your comment of "came nowhere in Formula Renault and Euro F3" is a little odd #-o Lewis finished 5th and 3rd in those debut season, and thats classed as 'nowhere'. Max finished 3rd in his debut season, and thats classed as better! What ever you've had, I'd love to have some too please! Come on man, be serious for 1 minute.
Are you for real? Are you actually trying to say 5th is now better than 3rd? πŸ˜‚

Max was clearly the best driver in F3 but lost out on the title due to retiring 8 times whilst Ocon only retired 3 times.

Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?

Your fanaticism is clouding your judgement buddy.
No no no no no. You said, Pre F1, Max was better than Lewis. That means your saying Maxs 3rd place finish in Euro F3 was better than Lewis winning formula Renault UK, Euro F3 and GP2 (the latter at the first attempt). Max has never won a championship in a single seater, let alone at the first attempt.
You have to compare like for like, Hamilton finished 5th in his debut F3 season and that's with a few seasons of single seater racing behind him whereas Verstappen finished 3rd after basically making the jump straight from karting.

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NathanOlder
157
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:37 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:34 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 pm


Are you for real? Are you actually trying to say 5th is now better than 3rd? πŸ˜‚

Max was clearly the best driver in F3 but lost out on the title due to retiring 8 times whilst Ocon only retired 3 times.

Max also won 10 races whilst Hamilton only won 1, big difference there don't you think?

Your fanaticism is clouding your judgement buddy.
No no no no no. You said, Pre F1, Max was better than Lewis. That means your saying Maxs 3rd place finish in Euro F3 was better than Lewis winning formula Renault UK, Euro F3 and GP2 (the latter at the first attempt). Max has never won a championship in a single seater, let alone at the first attempt.
You have to compare like for like, Hamilton finished 5th in his debut F3 season and that's with a few seasons of single seater racing behind him whereas Verstappen finished 3rd after basically making the jump straight from karting.
Yeah and then jumped again, so his pre F1 stats aren't the best. At least you get it now?
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

Wass85
Wass85
-1
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:43 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:37 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:34 pm


No no no no no. You said, Pre F1, Max was better than Lewis. That means your saying Maxs 3rd place finish in Euro F3 was better than Lewis winning formula Renault UK, Euro F3 and GP2 (the latter at the first attempt). Max has never won a championship in a single seater, let alone at the first attempt.
You have to compare like for like, Hamilton finished 5th in his debut F3 season and that's with a few seasons of single seater racing behind him whereas Verstappen finished 3rd after basically making the jump straight from karting.
Yeah and then jumped again, so his pre F1 stats aren't the best. At least you get it now?
I never mentioned stats, I said Verstappen looked more impressive in his pre-F1 career, that includes single seaters and karting.

Of course you can pull all the stats up you like but that doesn't mean much.

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NathanOlder
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:43 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:37 pm


You have to compare like for like, Hamilton finished 5th in his debut F3 season and that's with a few seasons of single seater racing behind him whereas Verstappen finished 3rd after basically making the jump straight from karting.
Yeah and then jumped again, so his pre F1 stats aren't the best. At least you get it now?
I never mentioned stats, I said Verstappen looked more impressive in his pre-F1 career, that includes single seaters and karting.

Of course you can pull all the stats up you like but that doesn't mean much.
Of course not. stats mean nothing. glad you cleared that up for us all. #-o
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

Post

NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:53 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:43 pm


Yeah and then jumped again, so his pre F1 stats aren't the best. At least you get it now?
I never mentioned stats, I said Verstappen looked more impressive in his pre-F1 career, that includes single seaters and karting.

Of course you can pull all the stats up you like but that doesn't mean much.
Of course not. stats mean nothing. glad you cleared that up for us all. #-o
Stop getting carried away and acting silly again.

Of course they mean something but how can you even compare when Hamilton had much more experience in single seater racing?

Like for like Verstappen did better, a fact that the stats will tell you.

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NathanOlder
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

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Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:03 pm
NathanOlder wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:53 pm
Wass85 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 pm


I never mentioned stats, I said Verstappen looked more impressive in his pre-F1 career, that includes single seaters and karting.

Of course you can pull all the stats up you like but that doesn't mean much.
Of course not. stats mean nothing. glad you cleared that up for us all. #-o
Stop getting carried away and acting silly again.

Of course they mean something but how can you even compare when Hamilton had much more experience in single seater racing?

Like for like Verstappen did better, a fact that the stats will tell you.
How can I even compare? When this all started by you comparing them #-o #-o
GoLandoGo
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flynfrog
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Re: Current driver ability (personal opinion)

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I think this came to its logical conclusion.