Honda leaving F1.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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RBR to go begging back to Renault? I bet Remault are going to be loving this.

Karma?!

I imagine Merc and Ferrari will tell them to get lost.

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adrianjordan
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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I can see Haas switching to Renault as others have suggested.

I can then see Renault and Ferrari supplying each of the Red Bull family teams.

Logically you'd think you'd have Red Bull Renault again and Alfa Tauri Ferrari
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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Maybe it's time for Red Bull to build their own engines! How?

Engine development is going to get more and more freezed by 2022 onwards...so what if they kept Honda's engines from 2021 onwards...bring in Mario Illien or Andy Cowell to keep them running and rebadge them??

Farfetched i know...
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:54 am
RBR to go begging back to Renault? I bet Remault are going to be loving this.

Karma?!

I imagine Merc and Ferrari will tell them to get lost.
Mercedes will already have 3 customer teams so they're in the strongest position to say "no" to RBR. Ferrari won't want to supply RBR but might supply AT if pushed. Renault won't have anyone other than the works team so they're basically not going to be able to say "no". I expect them to say "you're getting what we give you and we won't change anything to suit your car so you'll have to adapt to fit us". That should annoy Newey who likes to get everything as tight as possible and really needs the PU supplier to help achieve that.
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Restomaniac
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:54 am
RBR to go begging back to Renault? I bet Remault are going to be loving this.

Karma?!

I imagine Merc and Ferrari will tell them to get lost.
Well Mercedes just couldn’t. They currently supply 4 and I cannot see how they could supply over half the grid.

If Ferrari pick them up then they would he supplying half the grid.....Again I can’t see it.

The only supplier mandated to supply them is Renault and I cannot see any supplier wanting to take them on under their own steam.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:59 am
Maybe it's time for Red Bull to build their own engines! How?

Engine development is going to get more and more freezed by 2022 onwards...so what if they kept Honda's engines from 2021 onwards...bring in Mario Illien or Andy Cowell to keep them running and rebadge them??

Farfetched i know...
Buying Honda's PU and then developing it might not be the worst idea in the world. They've got 18 months to put together a team of engineers.

Why not?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

DChemTech
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Restomaniac wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:49 am
DChemTech wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:41 am
Cuky wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:34 am


Easy: others already have their capacities full with teams they supply.
Mercedes: works team, Williams, Aston Martin, McLaren
Ferrari: works team, Alfa Romeo, Haas
Renault: works team
Well, Maybe in 2022, Haas is Mazepin F1, and maybe they want Renault. Then it's 2-2 Ferrari and Renault. My point was that it's not definitively Renault that should be forced, but that it's [an engine supplier] that should be forced, on [some criterion]. That criterion may logically be the number of customers they have, but since that can change, it doesn't make it definitive it should be Renault. And one could argue it's not even the right criterion.
Those are the actual rules.

Look at it logically.
Ferrari have themselves, Alfa (Owned by Ferrari) and Haas (Ferrari component tie-in) sewn up so they’re out.
Mercedes have multi year deals with their teams plus they currently have one of their stars of the future driving for Williams until at least 2021. Toto Wolff has a tie in with Austin Martin. McLaren have JUST signed a military year deal.

Then ask why would Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault want to give a team like RedBull their power unit if ti helps them compete with themselves.

From 2021 Renault have nobody but themselves and so by the rules they HAVE to supply. It logically can be nobody else.
We're talking 2022, not 2021. You just need 1 team to swap from Ferrari to Renault, and they have an equal number. And tie-ins can change, so I don't consider HAAS as bound to Ferrari as you do. Especially now that they are apparently in discussion with Mazepin. I agree with you that the odds that Renault would be pushed into supplying are highest, but there are many factors that can change that between now and 2022.
Anyway, if anything, it all shows how much F1 needs independent engine suppliers. Having all tied to a works team makes proper competition impossible.

Restomaniac
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:58 am
I can see Haas switching to Renault as others have suggested.

I can then see Renault and Ferrari supplying each of the Red Bull family teams.

Logically you'd think you'd have Red Bull Renault again and Alfa Tauri Ferrari
Haas get components from Ferrari it’s part of the Haas model. No way will Ferrari keep doing that without their PU in the back.

Restomaniac
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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DChemTech wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:01 am
Restomaniac wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:49 am
DChemTech wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:41 am


Well, Maybe in 2022, Haas is Mazepin F1, and maybe they want Renault. Then it's 2-2 Ferrari and Renault. My point was that it's not definitively Renault that should be forced, but that it's [an engine supplier] that should be forced, on [some criterion]. That criterion may logically be the number of customers they have, but since that can change, it doesn't make it definitive it should be Renault. And one could argue it's not even the right criterion.
Those are the actual rules.

Look at it logically.
Ferrari have themselves, Alfa (Owned by Ferrari) and Haas (Ferrari component tie-in) sewn up so they’re out.
Mercedes have multi year deals with their teams plus they currently have one of their stars of the future driving for Williams until at least 2021. Toto Wolff has a tie in with Austin Martin. McLaren have JUST signed a military year deal.

Then ask why would Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault want to give a team like RedBull their power unit if ti helps them compete with themselves.

From 2021 Renault have nobody but themselves and so by the rules they HAVE to supply. It logically can be nobody else.
We're talking 2022, not 2021. You just need 1 team to swap from Ferrari to Renault, and they have an equal number. And tie-ins can change, so I don't consider HAAS as bound to Ferrari as you do. Especially now that they are apparently in discussion with Mazepin. I agree with you that the odds that Renault would be pushed into supplying are highest, but there are many factors that can change that between now and 2022.
Anyway, if anything, it all shows how much F1 needs independent engine suppliers. Having all tied to a works team makes proper competition impossible.
On that I can agree.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Would RBR even WANT a Ferrari engine. given how underpowered it seems at the moment?

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proteus
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Zak Brown must be having a little smile on his face. Not massive smile, but a smirk for sure 😀 Marko on the other hand probably feels something bitter in his mouth.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

DChemTech
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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proteus wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:05 am
Zak Brown must be having a little smile on his face. Not massive smile, but a smirk for sure 😀 Marko on the other hand probably feels something bitter in his mouth.
Going by the "reserve drivers" Russia podcast, a lot of people feel something bitter in their mouth in the Red Bull offices. But that's another story ;)

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jjn9128
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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ii) if called upon to do so by the FIA before 1 June (or such other date as agreed in writing between all the Power Unit Manufacturers and the FIA) of the season preceding that in which such power units were to be supplied, supply at least a number of teams (“T”) equal to the following equation :
T = (11-A)/(B-C)
- A = Total number of teams (including “works/factory” teams) having a supply agreement concluded for the given Championship season with a New Power Unit Manufacturer.
- B = Total number of manufacturers of homologated Power Units for the given Championship season.
- C = Total number of New Power Unit Manufacturers for the given Championship season.
provided that if the result contains a fraction then the fraction shall count as a full team (e.g. 11 teams divided by 4 manufacturers = 2.75, each manufacturer must, if called upon to do so by the FIA, supply at least 3 teams).

In doing so, the FIA will first allocate the power unit supply between the Power Unit Manufacturers that are supplying the fewest number of teams, provided that the teams without a supply agreement shall be allocated to the Power Unit Manufacturer(s) that supplies(supply) the lowest number of teams and so on. If there is more than one Power Unit Manufacturer supplying the fewest number of teams (i.e. in the same position) and/or more than one team requesting a supply the allocation between such Power Unit Manufacturers shall occur by ballot (which ballot shall be transparent and undertaken by the FIA in the presence of a representative of each of the Power Unit Manufacturer(s) and the new Customer Team concerned).
To answer why Renault will be compelled to supply Red Bull and Alpha Tauri under the current allocation if called to do so.
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:00 am
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:59 am
Maybe it's time for Red Bull to build their own engines! How?

Engine development is going to get more and more freezed by 2022 onwards...so what if they kept Honda's engines from 2021 onwards...bring in Mario Illien or Andy Cowell to keep them running and rebadge them??

Farfetched i know...
Buying Honda's PU and then developing it might not be the worst idea in the world. They've got 18 months to put together a team of engineers.

Why not?

Actually not a bad ideal at all. I can imagine the Honda personnel could easily be tempted to join them too ! The thought of a future working on electric cars etc will be all the incentive they need to leave...

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NathanOlder
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Re: Honda leaving F1.

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Couldn't help myself sorry. :lol:
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