New Horizons

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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strad
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Re: New Horizons

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You guys biases are showing. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Ringleheim
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Re: New Horizons

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:50 am
Comparing back to "the greats" is just a way to try to diminish the present. It's that simple. "He's not as good as X because X raced when things were different".

Any negative comparison between Hamilton and "the greats" from yesteryear must also apply to Schumacher. But somehow it doesn't. Surprise, surprise.
How old are you and how long have you been following Formula One motor racing?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: New Horizons

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Ringleheim wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:40 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:50 am
Comparing back to "the greats" is just a way to try to diminish the present. It's that simple. "He's not as good as X because X raced when things were different".

Any negative comparison between Hamilton and "the greats" from yesteryear must also apply to Schumacher. But somehow it doesn't. Surprise, surprise.
How old are you and how long have you been following Formula One motor racing?
I'll be 50 very soon and have been watching F1 races since the mid 1980s. Not sure that's relevant to the discussion, however.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: New Horizons

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strad wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:19 pm
You guys biases are showing. :wink:
And others' prejudices are likewise showing... :wink: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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strad
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Re: New Horizons

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Hold it! Hold it! there are prejudices and biases on GP Tech?? Nah.. Couldn't be.... could it? :lol: :lol:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Phil
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Re: New Horizons

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IMO - as great as “the greats” were back then, i just dont think the field was that competitive back then. Not as if that diminishes the achieved - you can only be as good as you needed to be to win. Applies to any era.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Just_a_fan
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Re: New Horizons

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strad wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:23 am
Hold it! Hold it! there are prejudices and biases on GP Tech?? Nah.. Couldn't be.... could it? :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Big Tea
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Re: New Horizons

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strad wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:23 am
Hold it! Hold it! there are prejudices and biases on GP Tech?? Nah.. Couldn't be.... could it? :lol: :lol:
I'm not but everyone else is :twisted:
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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strad
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Re: New Horizons

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D>
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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strad
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Re: New Horizons

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Phil how does that explain that modern greats like Moss and Stewart saying that Fangio was the GOAT?
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

V12-POWER
V12-POWER
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Re: New Horizons

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Lewis Hamilton might have topped up stats, but even then he’s still nowhere near the greats

To begin with he only had to beat only one or 2 drivers since 2014. Total Mercedes dominance, they dominated harder than Ferrari did in the early 2000s

He jumped in to mercedes when they were already the winning Mercedes, he didn’t make or form or structure the team like at least Schumacher did, and we can argue that Merc wouldn’t have been so successful without the input from MSC in the first place

The only driver who managed to beat him at “home” retired right away. (The story of it being too tough mentally still sounds a bit like a fairy tale)

They also got the perfect n2 driver after Rosberg which is bottas

His whole image is only getting darker and darker the more he mixes political/religious beliefs with F1

I mean, objectively speaking, he got a lucky strike that nobody will ever have again

Topped up stats but still far away from the greats. He does get away with that clownish style of his because F1 is much more of a mainstream thing

For example, Montoya arguably never beat anybody, but he was a character indeed, Alonso is another modern example

Hamilton will undoubtedly be remembered, it’s just that nobody would think of him had he decided to go somewhere else than Mercedes

This is also aside from the certain fakeness in current F1 that makes it unwatchable. The press, the racing and the teams, it does feel like a tv show sadly

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hUirEYExbN
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Re: New Horizons

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strad wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:07 pm
Phil how does that explain that modern greats like Moss and Stewart saying that Fangio was the GOAT?
People say all sorts of things and it doesn't really mean anything. Moss was much closer to Fangio in terms of his racing era than the modern guys, he had no idea what modern F1 was like, the talent it took and the difficulties of being competitive in modern machinery. Stewart is similar, closer to Fangio's time than Vettel or Hamilton's for example.

The modern guys are so competitive and highly trained/tuned that a guy like Fangio would be trampled underfoot with relative ease by anyone on the grid today. Bring Fangio as a child to the modern era and give him the modern treatment though, then we'd maybe see magic happen.

Just_a_fan
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Re: New Horizons

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strad wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:07 pm
Phil how does that explain that modern greats like Moss and Stewart saying that Fangio was the GOAT?
Moss modern? I'm a huge fan of his but there's no way he was "modern". Stewart likewise - he retired in '73 after all. That's nearly 50 years ago. Hardly "modern".

Both are definitely in the pantheon of greats, however.

I'm with them that Fangio is the GOAT. His figures are just ridiculous, even allowing for the rules etc., that were in place at the time.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: New Horizons

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Interesting bit on the telly about Michael's Monaco qualifying "crash" that tried to stop Alonso getting pole. Massa stated that Michael admitted to him that he had done it on purpose. So that's one argument put to bed.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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NathanOlder
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Re: New Horizons

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:25 pm
Interesting bit on the telly about Michael's Monaco qualifying "crash" that tried to stop Alonso getting pole. Massa stated that Michael admitted to him that he had done it on purpose. So that's one argument put to bed.
Yeah, I saw a bit on that a few weeks ago. the night before it was discussed between Michael, Ross Brawn and Felipe Massa. Massa thought it was all just a joke. the next day, it actually happened.
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