How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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godlameroso
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How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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I believe in the long run it is faster to do the race with the tank full, than it is to fuel just enough to make the finish.

The reason being, if you can lean on the engine more, you can lean on the tires less and have the same lap time. Near the end, your tires will have more life because you've been leaning on the engine more than the chassis, and you'll be just as light as the underfueled car at the end of the stint, with the added benefit of having fresher tires.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

hurril
hurril
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Re: How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:11 pm
I believe in the long run it is faster to do the race with the tank full, than it is to fuel just enough to make the finish.

The reason being, if you can lean on the engine more, you can lean on the tires less and have the same lap time. Near the end, your tires will have more life because you've been leaning on the engine more than the chassis, and you'll be just as light as the underfueled car at the end of the stint, with the added benefit of having fresher tires.
When the car is heavier and when you lean more on the engine is exactly when the tyres have to fess up the most.

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godlameroso
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Re: How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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hurril wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:08 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:11 pm
I believe in the long run it is faster to do the race with the tank full, than it is to fuel just enough to make the finish.

The reason being, if you can lean on the engine more, you can lean on the tires less and have the same lap time. Near the end, your tires will have more life because you've been leaning on the engine more than the chassis, and you'll be just as light as the underfueled car at the end of the stint, with the added benefit of having fresher tires.
When the car is heavier and when you lean more on the engine is exactly when the tyres have to fess up the most.
I thought it was when you had to push hard in the corners. What is the difference between being marginal on fuel, or having a full tank? 5-6kg? Also which strategy is more flexible? With lighter cars I'd agree more with you, but the cars are much heavier than they were in the re-fueling days, which means the fuel makes up a smaller percentage of the weight of the car.

10lbs on a cat is much different than 10lbs on a tiger. Packing 10lbs on a house cat makes it a mega chonk, a tiger's paw weighs 10lbs.

Back in the refueling days, the cars were 560kg, before the hybrid era the cars were 630kg and could carry 150kg of fuel. Worst case scenario car weight was 780kg, these cars weigh 740kg with no fuel, and 855kg with a full tank.

10kg of fuel increases the weight of a 540kg car by 1.8% a 630kg car by 1.4%, but only 1.3% in a 740kg car.

100kg of fuel in a 540kg car is an 18% increase in weight vs a 13% increase in weight in a 740kg car.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

hurril
hurril
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:10 pm
hurril wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:08 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:11 pm
I believe in the long run it is faster to do the race with the tank full, than it is to fuel just enough to make the finish.

The reason being, if you can lean on the engine more, you can lean on the tires less and have the same lap time. Near the end, your tires will have more life because you've been leaning on the engine more than the chassis, and you'll be just as light as the underfueled car at the end of the stint, with the added benefit of having fresher tires.
When the car is heavier and when you lean more on the engine is exactly when the tyres have to fess up the most.
I thought it was when you had to push hard in the corners. What is the difference between being marginal on fuel, or having a full tank? 5-6kg? Also which strategy is more flexible? With lighter cars I'd agree more with you, but the cars are much heavier than they were in the re-fueling days, which means the fuel makes up a smaller percentage of the weight of the car.

10lbs on a cat is much different than 10lbs on a tiger. Packing 10lbs on a house cat makes it a mega chonk, a tiger's paw weighs 10lbs.

Back in the refueling days, the cars were 560kg, before the hybrid era the cars were 630kg and could carry 150kg of fuel. Worst case scenario car weight was 780kg, these cars weigh 740kg with no fuel, and 855kg with a full tank.

10kg of fuel increases the weight of a 540kg car by 1.8% a 630kg car by 1.4%, but only 1.3% in a 740kg car.

100kg of fuel in a 540kg car is an 18% increase in weight vs a 13% increase in weight in a 740kg car.
The cars are heavier _and_ they carry around fuel for the whole race. I don't know how much fuel the cars would carry during the re-fueling days however.

The problem with your thoughts on pushing-in-the-corners idea is that the heavier car will have to "push less" to be on an even tyre-load with a lighter car. So it'll have to go slower _and then some_ to be able to actually reduce the wear. All of which would have to be compensated for by accelerating that much harder out of the corners to first compensate the initial "push less", then the "and then some" and on top of that they need that extra push to actually gain a time advantage.

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SiLo
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Re: How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:11 pm
I believe in the long run it is faster to do the race with the tank full, than it is to fuel just enough to make the finish.

The reason being, if you can lean on the engine more, you can lean on the tires less and have the same lap time. Near the end, your tires will have more life because you've been leaning on the engine more than the chassis, and you'll be just as light as the underfueled car at the end of the stint, with the added benefit of having fresher tires.
If this was the case, the smartest minds in engineering and strategy have been doing it wrong all these years.
Felipe Baby!

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godlameroso
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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SiLo wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:32 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:11 pm
I believe in the long run it is faster to do the race with the tank full, than it is to fuel just enough to make the finish.

The reason being, if you can lean on the engine more, you can lean on the tires less and have the same lap time. Near the end, your tires will have more life because you've been leaning on the engine more than the chassis, and you'll be just as light as the underfueled car at the end of the stint, with the added benefit of having fresher tires.
If this was the case, the smartest minds in engineering and strategy have been doing it wrong all these years.
They stop being human all of a sudden and become omniscient once they become f1 engineers?
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

hurril
hurril
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: How carrying a full fuel tank vs fueling just enough plays out.

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:07 pm
SiLo wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:32 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:11 pm
I believe in the long run it is faster to do the race with the tank full, than it is to fuel just enough to make the finish.

The reason being, if you can lean on the engine more, you can lean on the tires less and have the same lap time. Near the end, your tires will have more life because you've been leaning on the engine more than the chassis, and you'll be just as light as the underfueled car at the end of the stint, with the added benefit of having fresher tires.
If this was the case, the smartest minds in engineering and strategy have been doing it wrong all these years.
They stop being human all of a sudden and become omniscient once they become f1 engineers?
Which of these two only categories would you say you belong to here?