VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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wesley123
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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Shrieker wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:06 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:43 pm
So wait, you want to ban the stops during VSC/Safety car to make the races even more predictable than they already are?
Do you want an artificial show, or real racing ? They already have artificial 'cautions' in Indycar to bunch up the field, which gives of strong wwe vibes..
Sorry, but how does the pit lane being open make it artificial? How is it not 'real racing' when at that point they're not actually racing to begin with?
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henry
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:44 pm

the OTHER can of worms that this would open up however, is that this could potentially ruin the race of teammates driving behind eachother and are no long able to 'stack' pitstop since they need to add a 10 second (depending on the track average) 'penalty'. So let's say Norris pits with Sainz directly behind. Normally, Sainz would lose about 3 seconds depending on how fast they change tires. in this case however, Sainz would get double penalty, as he is behind Norris but Norris first needs to serve 10 seconds, then get the 3 second pitstop, and then Sainz can get HIS pistop but he FIRST needs to serve HIS 10 seconds. in other words, stacking up is going to lose you 10 seconds, so you must stay out.
If the penalty you describe is designed to make a pit stop the same under VSC as normal race conditions there would be very few occasions where a stacked stop would be necessary, or chosen by a sensible strategist.
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rscsr
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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Shrieker wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:06 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:43 pm
So wait, you want to ban the stops during VSC/Safety car to make the races even more predictable than they already are?
Do you want an artificial show, or real racing ? They already have artificial 'cautions' in Indycar to bunch up the field, which gives of strong wwe vibes..
In NASCAR they are called mystery cautions, because no one knows why a caution is thrown. Usually the cameras then hunt for any piece in the infield to make it too obvious that the caution just happened for the show.

Baulz
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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IndyCar does not throw the fake cautions like Nascar does.

However IndyCar does have a rule similar to what is being suggested, when a caution comes out they close the pits while the pace car gathers up all the field. Then the pits are opened, everyone then comes in for fuel and tires at the same time. Pit lane gets very busy and crowded, a dangerous situation.

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strad
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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They already have artificial 'cautions' in Indycar
Really? I haven't seen any artificial/fake cautions.
Can you provide an example? video preferred.
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basti313
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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henry wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:00 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:44 pm

the OTHER can of worms that this would open up however, is that this could potentially ruin the race of teammates driving behind eachother and are no long able to 'stack' pitstop since they need to add a 10 second (depending on the track average) 'penalty'. So let's say Norris pits with Sainz directly behind. Normally, Sainz would lose about 3 seconds depending on how fast they change tires. in this case however, Sainz would get double penalty, as he is behind Norris but Norris first needs to serve 10 seconds, then get the 3 second pitstop, and then Sainz can get HIS pistop but he FIRST needs to serve HIS 10 seconds. in other words, stacking up is going to lose you 10 seconds, so you must stay out.
If the penalty you describe is designed to make a pit stop the same under VSC as normal race conditions there would be very few occasions where a stacked stop would be necessary, or chosen by a sensible strategist.
That would be easily solvable. It is anyways only allowed to "wait" for your pitstop already now outside the fast lane. There is no reason why the rule can not be written in a way that the car has to stand 10sec in the pitlane, no matter if it is already on its spot or not. Like this the second car simply followes and once it has stopped behind the first car the 10sec start for the second car. Once they are served it drives to the spot and does the pitstop.

Jolle
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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A safety car situation will always be a benefit for some and a downside to others. There is no way around this. It’s for teams to take a SC or VSC in consideration when out on track, like they do now, it’s part of the game.
If you take good care of your tires, build a gap, you are in a favourable position when a VSC or SC is called, if you’re had a short stint, can’t follow the car in front of you you would suddenly be in a winning position of a SC is called on the right time. That doesn’t feel right.

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Shrieker
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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Another thing to consider is, now that we have VSC, the timing is under the control of the race director. If he is willing, he can make or break a driver's race. As was suspected @ Imola - which I don't think was the case, but many did ofc. The fact that it wasn't done to interfere with the race result there, doesn't mean it can't be done.

And in some situations the race director may decide to prolong declaring a VSC to not hamper the leaders who are fighting, causing a more dangerous situation than was originally. I think if there is a situation requiring a VSC/SC, the emphasis should be on safety of everyone taking part (drivers, marshalls, spectators and whatnot), and not trying to make the best out of the situation to gain a competitive advantage. I think these are very compelling arguments.
Last edited by Shrieker on Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oehrly
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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I think we shouldn't add any ban or time penalty for pit stops under SC/VSC. There are already enough complicated rules in this sport. Yes, this is the "pinnacle of motorsport". But still, we shouldn't overdo it with rules and extra rules. I fear that adding another rule for every single thing that we're not quite happy with will just make everything more confusing.

How would you deal with edge cases? SC/VSC called while car is driving down the pit lane? If we go with a variable pit lane speed, drivers would need to change the pit limiter speed while driving in the pit lane. If we use a waiting time before the mechanics are allowed to touch the car, the VSC might end in this time. Or the VSC ends after your pit stop and after you have served the waiting time. But now you have to drive down the whole pit lane still while the others are racing full speed already. So you served a longer time penalty than required for making it "equal".
There will always be room for winning or losing time due to good or bad luck. I think luck should still be part of this sport. It has always been a part.

If we think that the race director may be trying to act so as to (not) change the result of the race, this is a different problem. There should be clear and simple procedures defined. Which conditions cause a VSC? Which conditions cause an SC? Those procedures and conditions should be public. And they should be fast. As in, a car hits the wall, VSC now. Reduce the room for judgement calls as much as possible. That is what I think would be good. Good for transparency, racing and safety.

Jolle
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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There is an autonomous race director to not have a ton of procedures and extra rules. His function is impartial and professional. If there, as mentioned above, some kind of corruption at play, this should be addressed. but not with more rules and regulations.

Diesel
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Re: VSC/SC Pit Stop Ban

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They did a stint where the pitlane was closed under the SC, it just meant that anyone that hadn't made a stop had their race ruined because they had to wait until everyone had bunched up behind the SC before they could pit, at which point they went to the back of the grid when they did pit. So no, bad idea, it's fine as it is. NEXT.
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