Different drivers championship format

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wesley123
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:22 pm
That isn't true. Perez is case and point. He's in the top 50% of the drivers but will not be in any car next year..... Brady is Brady cause of Belichick. If Brady would have ended up on the Lions, he would have long been retired by now.
50% is a lot though. And with the junior programs being the way they are finding the upper 50% is a whole lot easier.
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diffuser
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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wesley123 wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:36 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:22 pm
That isn't true. Perez is case and point. He's in the top 50% of the drivers but will not be in any car next year..... Brady is Brady cause of Belichick. If Brady would have ended up on the Lions, he would have long been retired by now.
50% is a lot though. And with the junior programs being the way they are finding the upper 50% is a whole lot easier.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.

BTW, I just threw the 50% out there. He's probably in the top 25% but this stuff is so hard to proove. So I went with a easy number.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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Speaking of a different driver format, how about this one. A great comparisson is RedBull from the days Max was team mates with Ricciardo.

Instead of the normal points scoring format, how about the 2 drivers only score points when neither car suffers a mechanical race ending failure. So if Max broke down, the points Ric scores that day dont count. and vice versa.

From the day Max stepped in to the RedBull, up until the day Daniel left the points were

Ricciardo - 488
Verstappen - 436

or over the 3 years seperately

2016
Ric - 205
Max - 191

2017
Ric - 135
Max - 101

2018
Ric - 148
Max - 144

yet after the 3 years it seemed Max had all the bad luck, and he beat Ric convincingly, when in fact it was far from reality.
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sp8472
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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henry wrote:The Sakhir race race highlighted three aspects of this proposal.

1. Russell’s performance emphasised the significance of car performance.

2. The Mercedes tyre woes highlighted a major difficulty for strategy calls if two drivers in the same cars want the same strategy. Drivers in the same cars often run very close for most of the race, separating them for tyre changes would be problematic.

3. The joy experienced by Perez was good to see and extremely rare relying, as it usually does, on errors by the team(s) with the faster cars. Personally I’d like to see more equitable sharing of the joy.
I am with you Henry. I want to see more of that joy spread around.

Everyone highlights the issue of ‘bad luck’ if you happens to have a mechanical when you are driving the Merc. This is undeniably true. But bad luck effects everyone. The Merc is arguably the most reliable car out there, so less chance of that happening. Yes the drivers in the Merc may also take less risks so they don’t have a crash with another car, but this just gives others a greater chance again.

But I would prefer to see that way, than the way we have it now. Now we have to wait for the Merc to have a mechanical problem, or some weird circumstances like heavy rain or the Merc team doing something totally stupid for a different outcome to occur. Perez is the case in point. Like you, I would live to see that kind of joy from as many different drivers as possible. Imagine the genuine joy that you would see even from Hamilton if he managed to win in an Alfa! Would be totally different to his regular experience of winning in a Merc.

As also well pointed out, a rejig of the points system is well overdue. I think this would encourage more determined competition all the way down the pack and motivate even those in the last places to keep battling to the last. I know drivers fight for every place regardless of points. But I am sure there would be a lot of messaging from teams along the lines of “you are in 14th position and over a minute behind the first points we can get in 10th. Slow down and save the engine and gearbox. Nothing to win here by pushing as hard as you can just to get 13th”


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henry
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:19 pm
Speaking of a different driver format, how about this one. A great comparisson is RedBull from the days Max was team mates with Ricciardo.

Instead of the normal points scoring format, how about the 2 drivers only score points when neither car suffers a mechanical race ending failure. So if Max broke down, the points Ric scores that day dont count. and vice versa.

From the day Max stepped in to the RedBull, up until the day Daniel left the points were

Ricciardo - 488
Verstappen - 436

...snip

yet after the 3 years it seemed Max had all the bad luck, and he beat Ric convincingly, when in fact it was far from reality.
I think that’s a reasonable way to compare drivers in a team. Helps keep things more factual rather than based on impressions. I’m sure I’m not the only one grateful that you took the time to do that.

In 2017 I applied another technique which, if combined with yours, would, I think, give an even better team-mate comparison. I looked at Hamilton and Rosberg in the Mercedes and looked at the virtual seasons they completed, that is the cumulative points of each consecutive series of N races*. Rather like world No1 in other sports. I found Hamilton ahead on 2/3 of those so the WDC share seemed reasonable. If I had included your insight it may have changed the outcome.

*I varied N around 18. It didn’t make much difference.
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Unf
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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Constructor Championship should be deleted. This is one and only reason why we will never see Hamilton and Verstappen in one team for instance. I think it should be a bit better if let say Hamilton, who is in Mercedes won a WDC then immidiately Mercedes gain WCC. Then if Bottas will be 2nd and Verstappen 3rd - then RBR is on 2nd place in WCC and so on.

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hUirEYExbN
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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Unf wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am
Constructor Championship should be deleted. This is one and only reason why we will never see Hamilton and Verstappen in one team for instance. I think it should be a bit better if let say Hamilton, who is in Mercedes won a WDC then immidiately Mercedes gain WCC. Then if Bottas will be 2nd and Verstappen 3rd - then RBR is on 2nd place in WCC and so on.
How would you propose to divvy up the purse in that case?

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Unf
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Re: Different drivers championship format

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hUirEYExbN wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:35 pm
Unf wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am
Constructor Championship should be deleted. This is one and only reason why we will never see Hamilton and Verstappen in one team for instance. I think it should be a bit better if let say Hamilton, who is in Mercedes won a WDC then immidiately Mercedes gain WCC. Then if Bottas will be 2nd and Verstappen 3rd - then RBR is on 2nd place in WCC and so on.
How would you propose to divvy up the purse in that case?
No needed to be changed. Drivers have their contracts, and WCC still will be divided as it is now. Why do you see it differently on my propose?