Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:52 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:51 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:11 pm
2023 LMH vs LMDh will be insane, I think De Vries will be a wanted man by the teams there.

For Alfa Romeo, i think Vasseur want’s to prepare Pourchaire as a future driver and sign him as test/reserve or give him another year to take the F2 crown. Might as wel take the Chinese money in the mean time.
lmh vs lmdh??????????
I was refering to all the manufactures, who will enter LMH or LMDh class the next years. They need at least 6 drivers each.
Why on earth would he be remotely interested in those classes if he can drive for Formula 1?
Especially looking into his 'performance results' im LMP classes. It's not wow-factors by any means.
Yes he has won, obviously. But actually, In open wheeler sports he has excelled far more, winning championships or being runner up in a variety of classes like Formula Renault, GP3, Formula 2, and being Formula E champion.

He was a test driver for Mercedes and now is a reserve driver for Mercedes.
If Hamilton or Bottas ( Russell as of 2022 ) can't participate - whether because of Covid or something else,
he is the assigned driver to drive there. He has a shot at ANY Mercedes powered teams in the future.

Formula 1 is any driver's dream, and it's being thrown in his lap. And then people claim he only is interested if he can compete, not just for a backmarker team?

That doesn't mean at all he hasn't interest, it simply means he's not going to be in F1 - for the long term - just to be there, let's say like Grosjean and Magnussen ended up with.

Everybody starts more or less 'smaller' and even then Alfa Sauber - especially if powered by Mercedes, is not a small team and i'm sure 2022 will be interesting for them too.

What else is there for him? Participate in LM/Wec classes, where he can finish 15th aswell? How is that better than finishing P15 in F1?

If he was so adamant on being in a competitive series, he would not have refrained from signing for 2022, especially with Mercedes EQ formula E - where he will be competing against hasbeens and neverbeens like Frijns, Turvey, DiGrassi, Buémi, Wehrlein, etc.

If you actually read what De Vries said, it means above hall he is eyeing F1:
“Getting to Formula 1 alone wouldn’t necessarily mean ‘career successful’ for me. Racing in all professional classes and competing for victories is what it’s all about.”
He has raced in all professional classes and competed for victories EXCEPT for F1.
So his goal for F1 is competing for victories. NOT that his goals is not to be in F1 just to be there - but to go for a win.
how people translate that into not having interest in Alfa, Williams, or whatever is just mind-boggling.

He has Toto Wolff behind him, and Toto Wolff has a finger in Mercedes, Aston Martin and Williams - and it seems now also has found his way to Alfa, and indirectly also has Mclaren ties. If he can deliver, a promising and successfull F1 career is right at his feet. Spend 2 seasons maturing and beating Bottas @ Alfa to then replace Hamilton @ Mercedes mothership team or replace Vettel @ Aston Martin.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

LHamilton
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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So Alfa has apparently made their choice regarding the second seat. It will be revealed on Tuesday AFTER the Brazil weekend.

The Source is in French, which I don't speak. I will however provide not only the Source link, but also the reddit thread from which I've gotten the Source link from, as well as a translation given by a reddit user going by the name of "dragon998".

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/canalplus_sport/c ... &sort=time

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... he_second/

Translation;

"Julien Fébreau: Fred, what we understand from your words and without pushing it too far, by the way you speak (it's clear that) the decision is taken, it's just a matter of the announcement

Fred Vasseur: yes, a formality

Julien (repeats what Vasseur says). So the decision is taken. Perfect! So who will it be?

Fred: You will see tuesday after Brazil!

Julien: Ha, you see, we are starting to tighten the informations. Tuesday after Brazil, see you for the Alfa Romeo second driver's announcement"

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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LHamilton wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:36 pm
So Alfa has apparently made their choice regarding the second seat. It will be revealed on Tuesday AFTER the Brazil weekend.

The Source is in French, which I don't speak. I will however provide not only the Source link, but also the reddit thread from which I've gotten the Source link from, as well as a translation given by a reddit user going by the name of "dragon998".

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/canalplus_sport/c ... &sort=time

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... he_second/

Translation;

"Julien Fébreau: Fred, what we understand from your words and without pushing it too far, by the way you speak (it's clear that) the decision is taken, it's just a matter of the announcement

Fred Vasseur: yes, a formality

Julien (repeats what Vasseur says). So the decision is taken. Perfect! So who will it be?

Fred: You will see tuesday after Brazil!

Julien: Ha, you see, we are starting to tighten the informations. Tuesday after Brazil, see you for the Alfa Romeo second driver's announcement"
Likely this means Giovanazzi out. If Gio was staying, they wouldn't make such a drama out of it. It would be a simple announcement that Gio is confirmed for 2022 driving alongside Bottas. Since they wait so long with the announcement and still won't open up untill after Brazil, obviously, this means it won't be Giovanazzi.

It's down to either Nyck de Vries or Zhou i would argue. Mick stays with Haas, and though Alfa has recently renewed their (name) commitment to Sauber, there is only that name and nothing more in regards to a Ferrari link, nor any profound technical deals or partnerships unlike Haas has been having and still has. Since there is no case of Sauber/Alfa increasing their 'friendship' with Ferrari - rather the opposite - it's obvious why Mick has not moved to Alfa.

As such, it not only makes sense that Bottas has signed there (without any doubt thanks to Wolff), as not only is he experienced - he is a Mercedes 'contract' so to speak. It was rumoured before that Alfa would be going with Mercedes' engines. Which is weird, but not too weird in any case as we just recently had Aston Martin RedBull Racing Tag Heuer with Renault engines, and then got Aston Martin RedBull Racing Honda, and now have RedBull Racing Honda, and next year we will have RedBull Racing - with yet unannounced engine name - using (likely) rebadged Honda engines.

So it's likely that Mercedes is going to be more involved one way or another with Sauber. They already have a 'rich' history anyway. It has been rumoured long ago already that De Vries will drive for Alfa in 2022, and that he already has a signed contract.

Again, this makes sense if Mercedes is growing their relationships with Sauber, one way or another. De Vries is a Mercedes driver, greatly supported by Wolff, and is on a roll so to speak.

The ONLY other option would be Zhou, and yes, Zhou likely brings enormeous amounts of chinese money with him, that's also really all there is, and Sauber isn't looking like it's in a dire situation at the moment that they desperately need that money, so i'd argue they'd opt for 'stability and performance' over a quick buck with a driver thats not spectacular at all. I'd argue De Vries, especially with Mercedes behind him, will bring far more stability, performance, and quality over cashing in on 1 season with a Chinese 'below average'. One that also is as far as i remember a driver in the Alpine programme.

It's also not at all out of the question to see Alfa breaking ties with Sauber despite a recent renewal. I dont think they have to, not even with Mercedes engines.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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could it be announcing Zhou plus a tie-up to a Chinese car company? A good opportunity for some press.
I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it-
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Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:28 pm
could it be announcing Zhou plus a tie-up to a Chinese car company? A good opportunity for some press.
since they're not making a fuzz of it and saying it's just a formality, doubt it's going to be Zhou.
fits with the claim that De Vries has signed months and months ago.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:30 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:28 pm
could it be announcing Zhou plus a tie-up to a Chinese car company? A good opportunity for some press.
since they're not making a fuzz of it and saying it's just a formality, doubt it's going to be Zhou.
fits with the claim that De Vries has signed months and months ago.
But De Vries seems so average. Are you sure De Vries is an ace and not just the next Hartley? [Even in WEC, Hartley's credentials seem higher than De Vries for that matter!]

Wouldn't Piastri or Pourchaire be a more exciting signing?

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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To be fair, would you rather have Zhou than De Vries?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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peewon
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:38 am
LHamilton wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:36 pm
So Alfa has apparently made their choice regarding the second seat. It will be revealed on Tuesday AFTER the Brazil weekend.

The Source is in French, which I don't speak. I will however provide not only the Source link, but also the reddit thread from which I've gotten the Source link from, as well as a translation given by a reddit user going by the name of "dragon998".

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/canalplus_sport/c ... &sort=time

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... he_second/

Translation;

"Julien Fébreau: Fred, what we understand from your words and without pushing it too far, by the way you speak (it's clear that) the decision is taken, it's just a matter of the announcement

Fred Vasseur: yes, a formality

Julien (repeats what Vasseur says). So the decision is taken. Perfect! So who will it be?

Fred: You will see tuesday after Brazil!

Julien: Ha, you see, we are starting to tighten the informations. Tuesday after Brazil, see you for the Alfa Romeo second driver's announcement"
Likely this means Giovanazzi out. If Gio was staying, they wouldn't make such a drama out of it. It would be a simple announcement that Gio is confirmed for 2022 driving alongside Bottas. Since they wait so long with the announcement and still won't open up untill after Brazil, obviously, this means it won't be Giovanazzi.

It's down to either Nyck de Vries or Zhou i would argue. Mick stays with Haas, and though Alfa has recently renewed their (name) commitment to Sauber, there is only that name and nothing more in regards to a Ferrari link, nor any profound technical deals or partnerships unlike Haas has been having and still has. Since there is no case of Sauber/Alfa increasing their 'friendship' with Ferrari - rather the opposite - it's obvious why Mick has not moved to Alfa.

As such, it not only makes sense that Bottas has signed there (without any doubt thanks to Wolff), as not only is he experienced - he is a Mercedes 'contract' so to speak. It was rumoured before that Alfa would be going with Mercedes' engines. Which is weird, but not too weird in any case as we just recently had Aston Martin RedBull Racing Tag Heuer with Renault engines, and then got Aston Martin RedBull Racing Honda, and now have RedBull Racing Honda, and next year we will have RedBull Racing - with yet unannounced engine name - using (likely) rebadged Honda engines.

So it's likely that Mercedes is going to be more involved one way or another with Sauber. They already have a 'rich' history anyway. It has been rumoured long ago already that De Vries will drive for Alfa in 2022, and that he already has a signed contract.

Again, this makes sense if Mercedes is growing their relationships with Sauber, one way or another. De Vries is a Mercedes driver, greatly supported by Wolff, and is on a roll so to speak.

The ONLY other option would be Zhou, and yes, Zhou likely brings enormeous amounts of chinese money with him, that's also really all there is, and Sauber isn't looking like it's in a dire situation at the moment that they desperately need that money, so i'd argue they'd opt for 'stability and performance' over a quick buck with a driver thats not spectacular at all. I'd argue De Vries, especially with Mercedes behind him, will bring far more stability, performance, and quality over cashing in on 1 season with a Chinese 'below average'. One that also is as far as i remember a driver in the Alpine programme.

It's also not at all out of the question to see Alfa breaking ties with Sauber despite a recent renewal. I dont think they have to, not even with Mercedes engines.
Isnt Mercedes already at their maximum allowed customer teams with 3? I know their deals with Williams and AM are till 2025 and McLaren just signed on. Or have the rules been changed?

TimW
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:52 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:30 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:28 pm
could it be announcing Zhou plus a tie-up to a Chinese car company? A good opportunity for some press.
since they're not making a fuzz of it and saying it's just a formality, doubt it's going to be Zhou.
fits with the claim that De Vries has signed months and months ago.
But De Vries seems so average. Are you sure De Vries is an ace and not just the next Hartley? [Even in WEC, Hartley's credentials seem higher than De Vries for that matter!]

Wouldn't Piastri or Pourchaire be a more exciting signing?
He does not seem an ace, but looking at the F2 results, he seems in the same range as or better than several drivers on current grid (Schumacher, Albon, Tsunoda, Latifi, Mazepin). Considering that he actually won the F2 title, I think he has been a bit unlucky not getting an F1 chance. With the F1 hype in the Netherlands at the moment, he should be able to get some sponsorship money.

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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peewon wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:27 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:38 am
LHamilton wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:36 pm
So Alfa has apparently made their choice regarding the second seat. It will be revealed on Tuesday AFTER the Brazil weekend.

The Source is in French, which I don't speak. I will however provide not only the Source link, but also the reddit thread from which I've gotten the Source link from, as well as a translation given by a reddit user going by the name of "dragon998".

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/canalplus_sport/c ... &sort=time

Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... he_second/

Translation;

"Julien Fébreau: Fred, what we understand from your words and without pushing it too far, by the way you speak (it's clear that) the decision is taken, it's just a matter of the announcement

Fred Vasseur: yes, a formality

Julien (repeats what Vasseur says). So the decision is taken. Perfect! So who will it be?

Fred: You will see tuesday after Brazil!

Julien: Ha, you see, we are starting to tighten the informations. Tuesday after Brazil, see you for the Alfa Romeo second driver's announcement"
Likely this means Giovanazzi out. If Gio was staying, they wouldn't make such a drama out of it. It would be a simple announcement that Gio is confirmed for 2022 driving alongside Bottas. Since they wait so long with the announcement and still won't open up untill after Brazil, obviously, this means it won't be Giovanazzi.

It's down to either Nyck de Vries or Zhou i would argue. Mick stays with Haas, and though Alfa has recently renewed their (name) commitment to Sauber, there is only that name and nothing more in regards to a Ferrari link, nor any profound technical deals or partnerships unlike Haas has been having and still has. Since there is no case of Sauber/Alfa increasing their 'friendship' with Ferrari - rather the opposite - it's obvious why Mick has not moved to Alfa.

As such, it not only makes sense that Bottas has signed there (without any doubt thanks to Wolff), as not only is he experienced - he is a Mercedes 'contract' so to speak. It was rumoured before that Alfa would be going with Mercedes' engines. Which is weird, but not too weird in any case as we just recently had Aston Martin RedBull Racing Tag Heuer with Renault engines, and then got Aston Martin RedBull Racing Honda, and now have RedBull Racing Honda, and next year we will have RedBull Racing - with yet unannounced engine name - using (likely) rebadged Honda engines.

So it's likely that Mercedes is going to be more involved one way or another with Sauber. They already have a 'rich' history anyway. It has been rumoured long ago already that De Vries will drive for Alfa in 2022, and that he already has a signed contract.

Again, this makes sense if Mercedes is growing their relationships with Sauber, one way or another. De Vries is a Mercedes driver, greatly supported by Wolff, and is on a roll so to speak.

The ONLY other option would be Zhou, and yes, Zhou likely brings enormeous amounts of chinese money with him, that's also really all there is, and Sauber isn't looking like it's in a dire situation at the moment that they desperately need that money, so i'd argue they'd opt for 'stability and performance' over a quick buck with a driver thats not spectacular at all. I'd argue De Vries, especially with Mercedes behind him, will bring far more stability, performance, and quality over cashing in on 1 season with a Chinese 'below average'. One that also is as far as i remember a driver in the Alpine programme.

It's also not at all out of the question to see Alfa breaking ties with Sauber despite a recent renewal. I dont think they have to, not even with Mercedes engines.
Isnt Mercedes already at their maximum allowed customer teams with 3? I know their deals with Williams and AM are till 2025 and McLaren just signed on. Or have the rules been changed?
Article 8.3 of F1's sporting regulations states: "A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA."

They already have the consent obviously as there are already 4 teams on the grid: AMG, MCL, AST, WIL.

Appendix 9 of the sporting regulations, which deals with the number of supply deals, could be interpreted as allowing Mercedes to have more customers without needing approval.

To be fair though, i'm not expecting 2022 to see Alfa drive Mercedes engines though. If any i would argue that would happen post-2023 at best.

the VAG camp, whether that be Porsche, Audi, VW or any of the portfolio, has been having conversations with a variety of teams. RedBull, Mclaren, Williams, etc. It's been suggested or rumoured before that we might see Porsche/VAG end up with Williams and RedBull. That would mean the engines for Williams can go to Alfa.
That said, that won't happen before 2026 iirc.

Something to concider though: with Albon @ Williams, could we actually see a deal where Williams Mercedes engines end up @ Alfa, and as soon as 2023, could we see RedBull - now in the posession of the Honda engines, get their engines @ Williams too for a discount or interesting price?
Last edited by Manoah2u on Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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TimW wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:28 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:52 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:30 pm


since they're not making a fuzz of it and saying it's just a formality, doubt it's going to be Zhou.
fits with the claim that De Vries has signed months and months ago.
But De Vries seems so average. Are you sure De Vries is an ace and not just the next Hartley? [Even in WEC, Hartley's credentials seem higher than De Vries for that matter!]

Wouldn't Piastri or Pourchaire be a more exciting signing?
He does not seem an ace, but looking at the F2 results, he seems in the same range as or better than several drivers on current grid (Schumacher, Albon, Tsunoda, Latifi, Mazepin). Considering that he actually won the F2 title, I think he has been a bit unlucky not getting an F1 chance. With the F1 hype in the Netherlands at the moment, he should be able to get some sponsorship money.
Also, he hasn't just won the F2 title, he also won the FE title.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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The second Sauber seat is I think reserved for someone that brings in a heap of (sponsor) money (think Ericsson, Van de Garde, Leclec, Gio and Kubica). De Vries has a well paid job at Mercedes and I don’t think he has sponsors that would make that seat available for him.

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F1NAC
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Too bad that money is talking, but I think BOT-GIO would be solid midfield pairing

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peewon
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:00 pm
peewon wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:27 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:38 am


Likely this means Giovanazzi out. If Gio was staying, they wouldn't make such a drama out of it. It would be a simple announcement that Gio is confirmed for 2022 driving alongside Bottas. Since they wait so long with the announcement and still won't open up untill after Brazil, obviously, this means it won't be Giovanazzi.

It's down to either Nyck de Vries or Zhou i would argue. Mick stays with Haas, and though Alfa has recently renewed their (name) commitment to Sauber, there is only that name and nothing more in regards to a Ferrari link, nor any profound technical deals or partnerships unlike Haas has been having and still has. Since there is no case of Sauber/Alfa increasing their 'friendship' with Ferrari - rather the opposite - it's obvious why Mick has not moved to Alfa.

As such, it not only makes sense that Bottas has signed there (without any doubt thanks to Wolff), as not only is he experienced - he is a Mercedes 'contract' so to speak. It was rumoured before that Alfa would be going with Mercedes' engines. Which is weird, but not too weird in any case as we just recently had Aston Martin RedBull Racing Tag Heuer with Renault engines, and then got Aston Martin RedBull Racing Honda, and now have RedBull Racing Honda, and next year we will have RedBull Racing - with yet unannounced engine name - using (likely) rebadged Honda engines.

So it's likely that Mercedes is going to be more involved one way or another with Sauber. They already have a 'rich' history anyway. It has been rumoured long ago already that De Vries will drive for Alfa in 2022, and that he already has a signed contract.

Again, this makes sense if Mercedes is growing their relationships with Sauber, one way or another. De Vries is a Mercedes driver, greatly supported by Wolff, and is on a roll so to speak.

The ONLY other option would be Zhou, and yes, Zhou likely brings enormeous amounts of chinese money with him, that's also really all there is, and Sauber isn't looking like it's in a dire situation at the moment that they desperately need that money, so i'd argue they'd opt for 'stability and performance' over a quick buck with a driver thats not spectacular at all. I'd argue De Vries, especially with Mercedes behind him, will bring far more stability, performance, and quality over cashing in on 1 season with a Chinese 'below average'. One that also is as far as i remember a driver in the Alpine programme.

It's also not at all out of the question to see Alfa breaking ties with Sauber despite a recent renewal. I dont think they have to, not even with Mercedes engines.
Isnt Mercedes already at their maximum allowed customer teams with 3? I know their deals with Williams and AM are till 2025 and McLaren just signed on. Or have the rules been changed?
Article 8.3 of F1's sporting regulations states: "A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA."

They already have the consent obviously as there are already 4 teams on the grid: AMG, MCL, AST, WIL.

Appendix 9 of the sporting regulations, which deals with the number of supply deals, could be interpreted as allowing Mercedes to have more customers without needing approval.

To be fair though, i'm not expecting 2022 to see Alfa drive Mercedes engines though. If any i would argue that would happen post-2023 at best.

the VAG camp, whether that be Porsche, Audi, VW or any of the portfolio, has been having conversations with a variety of teams. RedBull, Mclaren, Williams, etc. It's been suggested or rumoured before that we might see Porsche/VAG end up with Williams and RedBull. That would mean the engines for Williams can go to Alfa.
That said, that won't happen before 2026 iirc.

Something to concider though: with Albon @ Williams, could we actually see a deal where Williams Mercedes engines end up @ Alfa, and as soon as 2023, could we see RedBull - now in the posession of the Honda engines, get their engines @ Williams too for a discount or interesting price?
They dont have any special permission as the limit is on customer teams. Works team not included.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:11 am
To be fair, would you rather have Zhou than De Vries?
I'd rather have Piastri or Pourchaire. :) Or even Giovanazzi, at least Giovanazzi is a proven quantity in Formula One, and Bottas would be a good benchmark for Giovanazzi.

PS. With Hulkenberg declining an Indycar drive, who says the Hulk is out of the running! Bottas + Hulk would be quite the solid lineup.

Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:02 pm
Also, he hasn't just won the F2 title, he also won the FE title.
FE title is not particularly worth anything on the F1 ladder! Formula E is rather its own specialised category and doesn't use the Pirelli tyres unlike F3 and F2. :) Similarly, F2 title in three seasons for De Vries versus (likely) F2 title in one season for Piastri, is simply not as good by De Vries.