Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:39 am
I have a hunch Russel will never get into a Mercedes seat without scoring a podium elsewhere.
As Totto says, he needs to see consistency from Russel first. 1 points scoring in a Mercedes doesn't gaurantee a race seat in the team. Even Max had to show consistently good results in Torro Rosso before he was promoted.
So unless Williams gets it together then Russel may never have that chance. He may have to try to convince other teams in getting him a seat; such as Mclaren, Renault, Aston Martin.
Bottas also had to prove himself before being promoted. So I do not think anything is promised to Russel. He needs to show some results. It's too much of a risk to Mercedes.
I'm not sure a podium elsewhere is an issue. They'll be able to see exactly how good he is in terms of speed and potential from what he does in the Williams. (Where he has been consistently good- especially in qualifying) They also have some great data from the weekend and tests he's spent with the works team. He also showed in that Bahrain race he can be a winner in tricky circumstances and won't get overwhelmed. He does have to leave Williams to progress, but I don't think it's necessary for an intermediate step to another team to prove anything at this point.

Fully expect him to go from Williams to the works team in 2022.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Indeed i dont believe there should be any doubt about Russell going to Merc in 2022. Bottas is done and dusted. even if he manages to do miracles in 2021, Merc knows themselves too that that wont be repeated. Besides, his time is up anyway and i'm pretty sure that if corona didn't happen Russell was meant to be @ Merc this season anyway.

100% Sure that it'll be Hamilton-Russell for 2022.

Where Bottas will end up remains to be seen. There's no room @ Ferrari and quite frankly i don't think a top team would even concider him.
Mclaren could be a potential candidate because Bottas has long Mercedes experience and is a race winner, and let's face it, whether having had a chance or not,
Norris isn't (yet). Not that i think Mclaren is concidering replacing Norris, but you never know what might happen.

Renault/Alpine surely would go with Gasly/Ocon over Bottas.

Again, I see no topteam having any interest in Bottas for whatever reason, and just as much i dont see why a non-topteam would have interest in expensive and uninteresting Bottas either.
For that matter, Bottas probably won't have any interest in F1 after 2021 either, so I see him leave for WEC, Formula E, or perhaps more likely, WRC.

I think the biggest question for 2022 is not whether Russell wil leave for Merc, it's rather who will replace Russell @ Williams.
One would think Jack Aitken would be a possibility, however, there are many other youngsters on the path to F1, and then there's the also Nissany Money.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:58 am
Indeed i dont believe there should be any doubt about Russell going to Merc in 2022. Bottas is done and dusted. even if he manages to do miracles in 2021, Merc knows themselves too that that wont be repeated. Besides, his time is up anyway and i'm pretty sure that if corona didn't happen Russell was meant to be @ Merc this season anyway.

100% Sure that it'll be Hamilton-Russell for 2022.

Where Bottas will end up remains to be seen. There's no room @ Ferrari and quite frankly i don't think a top team would even concider him.
Mclaren could be a potential candidate because Bottas has long Mercedes experience and is a race winner, and let's face it, whether having had a chance or not,
Norris isn't (yet). Not that i think Mclaren is concidering replacing Norris, but you never know what might happen.

Renault/Alpine surely would go with Gasly/Ocon over Bottas.

Again, I see no topteam having any interest in Bottas for whatever reason, and just as much i dont see why a non-topteam would have interest in expensive and uninteresting Bottas either.
For that matter, Bottas probably won't have any interest in F1 after 2021 either, so I see him leave for WEC, Formula E, or perhaps more likely, WRC.

I think the biggest question for 2022 is not whether Russell wil leave for Merc, it's rather who will replace Russell @ Williams.
One would think Jack Aitken would be a possibility, however, there are many other youngsters on the path to F1, and then there's the also Nissany Money.
Don't know if Bottas will be "done" in 2022. F1 is always full of surprises. Alonso might just quit again... Williams could go for experience when Russell leaves for Mercedes, Vettel might just not be in tune with F1 anymore, etc etc. Bottas might not be Hamilton on Sunday, but he's not a bad driver, as some think here. Barrichello, Irvine and Massa all had a few more years in F1 after being "murdered" by their dominant teammate.

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:29 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:58 am
Indeed i dont believe there should be any doubt about Russell going to Merc in 2022. Bottas is done and dusted. even if he manages to do miracles in 2021, Merc knows themselves too that that wont be repeated. Besides, his time is up anyway and i'm pretty sure that if corona didn't happen Russell was meant to be @ Merc this season anyway.

100% Sure that it'll be Hamilton-Russell for 2022.

Where Bottas will end up remains to be seen. There's no room @ Ferrari and quite frankly i don't think a top team would even concider him.
Mclaren could be a potential candidate because Bottas has long Mercedes experience and is a race winner, and let's face it, whether having had a chance or not,
Norris isn't (yet). Not that i think Mclaren is concidering replacing Norris, but you never know what might happen.

Renault/Alpine surely would go with Gasly/Ocon over Bottas.

Again, I see no topteam having any interest in Bottas for whatever reason, and just as much i dont see why a non-topteam would have interest in expensive and uninteresting Bottas either.
For that matter, Bottas probably won't have any interest in F1 after 2021 either, so I see him leave for WEC, Formula E, or perhaps more likely, WRC.

I think the biggest question for 2022 is not whether Russell wil leave for Merc, it's rather who will replace Russell @ Williams.
One would think Jack Aitken would be a possibility, however, there are many other youngsters on the path to F1, and then there's the also Nissany Money.
Don't know if Bottas will be "done" in 2022. F1 is always full of surprises. Alonso might just quit again... Williams could go for experience when Russell leaves for Mercedes, Vettel might just not be in tune with F1 anymore, etc etc. Bottas might not be Hamilton on Sunday, but he's not a bad driver, as some think here. Barrichello, Irvine and Massa all had a few more years in F1 after being "murdered" by their dominant teammate.
I think Bottas future prospects depend on Sebs performance this year and next year. Well, that or a resurgent Williams.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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I dont see the logic with Bottas being dumped as a multiple race winner and being replaced by someone without results.
Mercedes doing a risk analysis would not see Bottas as a weak link or unknown quantity.
He has been delivering every year what is required for the team to get WCC and the WDC.

I do see where Russel needs to come with some results. Showing speed alone is not enough to get into the best championship team of all time.
Lets face it, he has poor teammates so far, only 2 points, and his showing in sakhir was not bad, but it was on a very easy track to drive.
One swallow does not a summer make.
Then to say Norris will be dumped for Bottas.. Norris who has podiums and points and is proven.. The weakest link in all of this is Russel. He needs tangible proof of his quality and that trades in points currency. He has only 2.
I think Bottas seat is very safe!
For Sure!!

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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I think Bottas has potentially a lot of options. Contrary to what some think, he is not among the worst drivers on the grid, and will get offers should he leave Mercedes. Whether they are offers he wants to take are another matter.
His experience in the Merc team is a valuable commodity. He can probably give a lot of insight to another team about how/why things work so well for them and also a lot on lines of development and the cars.
Also what many perceive as his 'weakness' is a strength in a lot of eyes. He's not going to be #1 at RBR or Ferrari, but he's shown that he's a great team mate to a top driver. Both those teams have potentially combustible line ups for 2021 and it could all end in tears. What better man to bring in than Bottas? You know he'll usually bring that RBR home in 4th at worst, for example, and he's not going to jeopardise team harmony by picking a fight with Verstappen or Leclerc. Likewise his steady temperment and experience would be a great plus to have alongside a younger driver at any team or lead in one of the midfield teams. Actually I think he has quite a lot to offer most teams in some capacity. He's very much underrated by some on here.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:46 pm
I dont see the logic with Bottas being dumped as a multiple race winner and being replaced by someone without results.
Mercedes doing a risk analysis would not see Bottas as a weak link or unknown quantity.
He has been delivering every year what is required for the team to get WCC and the WDC.

I do see where Russel needs to come with some results. Showing speed alone is not enough to get into the best championship team of all time.
Lets face it, he has poor teammates so far, only 2 points, and his showing in sakhir was not bad, but it was on a very easy track to drive.
One swallow does not a summer make.
Then to say Norris will be dumped for Bottas.. Norris who has podiums and points and is proven.. The weakest link in all of this is Russel. He needs tangible proof of his quality and that trades in points currency. He has only 2.
I think Bottas seat is very safe!
I see your argument, but I really think Mercedes will take Russell next year whatever. If Hamilton is still around then Bottas loses out. Should Hamilton not be there then Bottas will remain.

MKlaus
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... ormula-One
Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes have reportedly had a breakthrough in contract negotiations with an 'agreement' already in place. Hamilton's future in F1 has dominated headlines in the offseason on whether or not he will stay at Mercedes.
This is interesting.
And his new deal also reportedly includes a veto right regarding his choice in a team-mate at Mercedes.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:46 pm
I dont see the logic with Bottas being dumped as a multiple race winner and being replaced by someone without results.
Bottas is way too slow and let's be honest, Russell, with zero experience, beat Bottas to a pulp, if it were not for Merc's botched pitstop and endless hits thrown at him.
Mercedes doing a risk analysis would not see Bottas as a weak link or unknown quantity.
He has been delivering every year what is required for the team to get WCC and the WDC.
Still has been underperforming and performing worse and worse. He's only a decent seat filler and only because the Merc is so mighty that his less than stellar performance is acceptable since he's fullfilling the role that was given to him: second fiddle. And even then, twice, he hasn't finished P2 in the standings yet being in the best car.

The competition is breathing in their necks and they are going to need somebody that can be on Lewis level.
Bottas is far from that, and this is a risk.
I do see where Russel needs to come with some results. Showing speed alone is not enough to get into the best championship team of all time.
Lets face it, he has poor teammates so far, only 2 points, and his showing in sakhir was not bad, but it was on a very easy track to drive.
One swallow does not a summer make.
Russell annhialeted the competition in his ever first outing in a mothership team where others would collapse.
The weakest link in all of this is Russel.

He needs tangible proof of his quality and that trades in points currency. He has only 2.
I think Bottas seat is very safe!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Zynerji
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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I think Russell is the real deal. What happens if Williams take the 2022 Renault option tho?🤔

aMessageToCharlie
aMessageToCharlie
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Good to see people calling a spade a spade for once.

Bottas has been consistantly underperforming. His only selling point is that he's to slow to cause intra team drama, which is why Merc hired him in the first place.

Deciding between him and Russell is a no brainer. And even more so with the no 1 driver's contract situation still in limbo. I don’t think any team principal would feel comfortable having to rely on Bottas leading their championship charge. At least I wouldnt, that's for sure.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:35 pm
I think Russell is the real deal.
I agree. He's a very good young driver and definitely is a star in the pack. Which is why I laughed when Horner claimed that Russell somehow proved that Max is the best driver in F1. "If a Williams driver can do well..." as if Russell is a no one with no talent. :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Bottas is too slow? really?
Where has Bottas been slow? the same guy that outqualified Russel? :roll:
I think there needs to be evidence showing Bottas actually underperforming, and there is none.
His 2020 season is pretty much a solid performance. Russel has had more underwhelming races than Bottas, even considering who he races against, the Haas and Alfa Romeo.

Again, gutfeelings do not make decisions. Bottas has results. Russel doesn't. He can come into Mercedes just like Gasly came into redbull. Show a lot of promise in the small team, and have a horrible season when the pressure is on. He is unproven, and should do a few more years fighting in the midfield and get a possible podium.
At this stage Stroll has more credibility than Russel. So does Ocon.
For Sure!!

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Scorpaguy
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Bot is a good 1-lapper. However, he should have been able to CRUSH Rus in the Ham covid race. The truth is he was soundly outperformed on his own element by an outsider. Yes, Hulk has proven it is possible to perform well in such circumstances, but Rus was excelling and easily the measure of Bot.

Rus winning the race was a fairly tale that had little basis in reality...but almost came true. IMHO, Rus performed so well that a noticeably quite ill Ham forced his return a week later to keep from being being outshone (a comment that will get you downvoted in Merc forums BTW). Rus is good, some may objectively say much better than Bot...and that is why he will not not drive for Merc whilst Ham remains. Ham has a huge ego which Bot constantly strokes...and as the GOAT, Ham is entitled to such.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:46 pm
Bottas is too slow? really?
Where has Bottas been slow? the same guy that outqualified Russel? :roll:
I think there needs to be evidence showing Bottas actually underperforming, and there is none.
His 2020 season is pretty much a solid performance. Russel has had more underwhelming races than Bottas, even considering who he races against, the Haas and Alfa Romeo.

Again, gutfeelings do not make decisions. Bottas has results. Russel doesn't. He can come into Mercedes just like Gasly came into redbull. Show a lot of promise in the small team, and have a horrible season when the pressure is on. He is unproven, and should do a few more years fighting in the midfield and get a possible podium.
At this stage Stroll has more credibility than Russel. So does Ocon.
'Bottas is a slow/bad/the worst driver' is just something that's banded around aggressively by some people on here, simply because that narrative can then be used to argue that Hamilton is just an average driver in a great car and downplay his achievements. Some people have even suggested he's the worst or second worst driver on the whole grid which is clearly nonsense. As you touched on, there's simply no actual evidence apart from wishful thinking to quantify this.

In actuality of course, it's generally accepted you can absolutely place four drivers ahead of him. (Ham, Ver, Lec, Ric) and I don't think anyone would argue. After that, it's far less clear. I think you can argue he's anywhere from 5-10 but much further down from that, and it's just a bit of a departure from objectivity and reality.