Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Ryar
17
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 am
Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
One can imagine the state of his self respect. :lol:

Since when did fighting the team mate became "selfish" in F1? :)
Hakuna Matata!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
771
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 am
Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
Bottas was sat behind Leclerc making little impact when Hamilton cruised up behind Bottas. Hamilton then pursued and passed Leclerc to take the win. Bottas played the team game because he wasn't able to attack Leclerc himself for whatever reason. If Bottas had cruised up to Leclerc and was fighting him, the team wouldn't have told him to let Hamilton through. I don't think they'd have told them to switch places if Bottas was leading and Hamilton was second as the team would be on for maximum points and that is what they focus on.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

politburo
politburo
3
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:46 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:54 am
politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 am
Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
Bottas was sat behind Leclerc making little impact when Hamilton cruised up behind Bottas. Hamilton then pursued and passed Leclerc to take the win. Bottas played the team game because he wasn't able to attack Leclerc himself for whatever reason. If Bottas had cruised up to Leclerc and was fighting him, the team wouldn't have told him to let Hamilton through. I don't think they'd have told them to switch places if Bottas was leading and Hamilton was second as the team would be on for maximum points and that is what they focus on.
Bottas was lapping about 3-4 tenths faster than Leclerc in the lap 34 - 39, cut the gap from 9 to about 7.5 seconds. He then made it clear on the radio he couldn't chase him perhaps he just didn't believe he could, yet his teammate could do it.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
771
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:01 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:54 am
politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 am
Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
Bottas was sat behind Leclerc making little impact when Hamilton cruised up behind Bottas. Hamilton then pursued and passed Leclerc to take the win. Bottas played the team game because he wasn't able to attack Leclerc himself for whatever reason. If Bottas had cruised up to Leclerc and was fighting him, the team wouldn't have told him to let Hamilton through. I don't think they'd have told them to switch places if Bottas was leading and Hamilton was second as the team would be on for maximum points and that is what they focus on.
Bottas was lapping about 3-4 tenths faster than Leclerc in the lap 34 - 39, cut the gap from 9 to about 7.5 seconds. He then made it clear on the radio he couldn't chase him perhaps he just didn't believe he could, yet his teammate could do it.
Bottas's tyres were only 5 laps older than Hamilton's but Hamilton was a second a lap quicker on them at times (Bottas's fastest lap was 8/10s slower than Hamilton's both on lap 45. Maybe Bottas just didn't believe he could catch Leclerc. I think Bottas said in the post race interview that he didn't have the in-car drink available. He was probably struggling physically in that case.
Last edited by Just_a_fan on Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

politburo
politburo
3
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:46 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Ryar wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:53 am
politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 am
Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
One can imagine the state of his self respect. :lol:

Since when did fighting the team mate became "selfish" in F1? :)
Since 2016 one would imagine. It's quite intriguing, given Hamilton has had Alonso and Button who were both excellent, especially the latter who won plenty of points for the McLaren team in the RB 2010-2012 era. Now it sounds like he has it so good with Bottas. Which in turn may never provide Russell the chance to fight for race wins despite his excellent one-lap pace.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"

politburo
politburo
3
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:46 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:06 am
politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:01 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:54 am


Bottas was sat behind Leclerc making little impact when Hamilton cruised up behind Bottas. Hamilton then pursued and passed Leclerc to take the win. Bottas played the team game because he wasn't able to attack Leclerc himself for whatever reason. If Bottas had cruised up to Leclerc and was fighting him, the team wouldn't have told him to let Hamilton through. I don't think they'd have told them to switch places if Bottas was leading and Hamilton was second as the team would be on for maximum points and that is what they focus on.
Bottas was lapping about 3-4 tenths faster than Leclerc in the lap 34 - 39, cut the gap from 9 to about 7.5 seconds. He then made it clear on the radio he couldn't chase him perhaps he just didn't believe he could, yet his teammate could do it.
Bottas's tyres were only 5 laps older than Hamilton's but Hamilton was a second a lap quicker on them at times. Maybe Bottas just didn't believe he could catch Leclerc. I think Bottas said in the post race interview that he didn't have the in-car drink available. He was probably struggling physically in that case.
It is quite sad, Bottas qualifies well in most of the races but one can just pencil him in for 2nd of 3rd more often than not, with 2, 3 or 4 race wins a season. He's like the true definition of support driver, Mark Webber 2.0, both Webber and Bottas very good drivers but circumstances always leave them behind their teammate - whether that is by the direct intent of the teams or not I don't know.

Imagine, Bottas won as many races as Verstappen last year (2) in that Mercedes W11 which is the fastest F1 car of all time.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"

dans79
dans79
393
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:14 am
It is quite sad, Bottas qualifies well in most of the races but one can just pencil him in for 2nd of 3rd more often than not, with 2, 3 or 4 race wins a season.
Imo, what hinders him the most, is his inability to nurse the tires. Even yesterday he told the team over the radio he wouldn't make it to the end at this pace (or something to that effect).

He was significantly more aggressive in wheel to wheel racing (and in general) when at Williams, but that disappeared almost as soon as he arrived at Mercedes in 2017. I've always found that odd, as he is less aggressive against everyone now!
173 101 99 7

Jolle
Jolle
256
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

dans79 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:24 am
politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:14 am
It is quite sad, Bottas qualifies well in most of the races but one can just pencil him in for 2nd of 3rd more often than not, with 2, 3 or 4 race wins a season.
Imo, what hinders him the most, is his inability to nurse the tires. Even yesterday he told the team over the radio he wouldn't make it to the end at this pace (or something to that effect).

He was significantly more aggressive in wheel to wheel racing (and in general) when at Williams, but that disappeared almost as soon as he arrived at Mercedes in 2017. I've always found that odd, as he is less aggressive against everyone now!
Maybe an explanation is that when he went from Williams to Mercedes, the formula changed as well. From the narrow cars to the downforce beasts we have now. It’s a different animal. The braking zones are shorter, higher forces and even less “nice” on tires.

User avatar
JordanMugen
84
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

ringo wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:24 pm
Ever since 2008 fans have been trying to find that kryptonite for Hamilton and they keep having to recalibrate their perceptions when they realize he is extremely dificult to beat.
:?:

Hamilton was beaten on points by both Button and Rosberg. Hamilton is very good but certainly not unbeatable in the same car, and certainly not unbeatable by a better car.

politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 am
Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
Ironically, Hamilton's own actions towards Alonso, Button and Rosberg were selfish (remember backing the pack up in Abu Dhabi, almost as if to deliberately hinder Nico Rosberg?), as were Alonso's and Rosberg's towards Hamilton. Hamilton did not do a great job at being a courteous supporting driver, so it seems to be bizarre to being making such statements instead of leading by example of being a courteous supporting teammate to Alonso, Button, Rosberg etc?

User avatar
El Scorchio
55
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:13 pm
ringo wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:24 pm
Ever since 2008 fans have been trying to find that kryptonite for Hamilton and they keep having to recalibrate their perceptions when they realize he is extremely dificult to beat.
:?:

Hamilton was beaten on points by both Button and Rosberg. Hamilton is very good but certainly not unbeatable in the same car, and certainly not unbeatable by a better car.

politburo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 am
Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
Ironically, Hamilton's own actions towards Alonso, Button and Rosberg were selfish (remember backing the pack up in Abu Dhabi, almost as if to deliberately hinder Nico Rosberg?), as were Alonso's and Rosberg's towards Hamilton. Hamilton did not do a great job at being a courteous supporting driver, so it seems to be bizarre to being making such statements instead of leading by example of being a courteous supporting teammate to Alonso, Button, Rosberg etc?
Not sure about that Abu Dhabi race. What driver wouldn't have done that in the same situation? The WCC was won but the WDC was still in the balance. I'd expect any driver worth their salt to do what Hamilton did there, and actually the team probably shouldn't have interfered so much in it.

dans79
dans79
393
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:41 pm
Not sure about that Abu Dhabi race. What driver wouldn't have done that in the same situation? The WCC was won but the WDC was still in the balance. I'd expect any driver worth their salt to do what Hamilton did there, and actually the team probably shouldn't have interfered so much in it.
Yepo, not to mention wolff later admitted the team was wrong to try and intervene!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolf ... 18/858018/
"In our mind, the way we think, this race was giving us the same number of points as other races and we try to win that one - not considering that there was much more at stake for the drivers.

"How the race panned out, we should have communicated differently and in hindsight let them race in the way they deemed to be appropriate."
173 101 99 7

User avatar
El Scorchio
55
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:48 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:41 pm
Not sure about that Abu Dhabi race. What driver wouldn't have done that in the same situation? The WCC was won but the WDC was still in the balance. I'd expect any driver worth their salt to do what Hamilton did there, and actually the team probably shouldn't have interfered so much in it.
Yepo, not to mention wolff later admitted the team was wrong to try and intervene!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolf ... 18/858018/
"In our mind, the way we think, this race was giving us the same number of points as other races and we try to win that one - not considering that there was much more at stake for the drivers.

"How the race panned out, we should have communicated differently and in hindsight let them race in the way they deemed to be appropriate."
It does highlight their 'team first' ethos as well.

User avatar
Ryar
17
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:13 pm
ringo wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:24 pm
Ever since 2008 fans have been trying to find that kryptonite for Hamilton and they keep having to recalibrate their perceptions when they realize he is extremely dificult to beat.
:?:

Hamilton was beaten on points by both Button and Rosberg. Hamilton is very good but certainly not unbeatable in the same car, and certainly not unbeatable by a better car.
I thought it was Button and Seb that won from 2009 to 2013, while Hamilton was playing mario kart with Massa and of course 2016, when Nico rattled him. It was potent enough kryptonite IMO :)

2021 is similar to 2016 in many ways. A young talented driver has gotten into Hamilton's head, which has brought out so many mistakes.
Hakuna Matata!

dans79
dans79
393
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

Ryar wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:16 pm
2021 is similar to 2016 in many ways. A young talented driver has gotten into Hamilton's head, which has brought out so many mistakes.
LOL, and the younger driver (by a few months), said he had to sacrifice so much and commit so much effort to do it, that he was retiring because he wasn't willing to do it again!
173 101 99 7

User avatar
Ryar
17
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:29 pm
Ryar wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:16 pm
2021 is similar to 2016 in many ways. A young talented driver has gotten into Hamilton's head, which has brought out so many mistakes.
LOL, and the younger driver (by a few months), said he had to sacrifice so much and commit so much effort to do it, that he was retiring because he wasn't willing to do it again!
LOL. 1+1 = 3. A family man recognises that the demands of his job is taking toll on his family life and having achieved the dream of winning the title, doesn't want to sacrifice family commitments. A hardcore driver fan reads it as, "i am afraid of competing with Hamilton". :lol:
My friend, i have seen misplaced comprehension skills in a few posts of yours.
Hakuna Matata!