Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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RZS10 wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:04 pm
In the race thread there has been a repeated argument about whether the contact put Lewis wider than he was going to be or not, some even claiming that it helped him take a tighter line somehow.

At normal speed it's not noticeable right away but his car gets unsettled quite a bit, but slowing the onboard video down to 0.25x speed (or going frame by frame) shows it really well, instead of a normal up/down bouncing there's a rotational element to his car's movement for a relatively long period of time, arguably 20-30frames (0.4-0.6s) potentially even more.

I made a gif and slowed the frames around the incident even further and painted in some lines over the suspension and left tyre and also some objects further away, once for initial turning before the contact and then for post contact, those objects obviously don't stay in the same place but it stil accentuates the motion, i believe:
https://s6.gifyu.com/images/crashee.gif

It's best visible on the right edge of the treeline.

Given how sensitive the aero on those cars is this surely must have had an impact on his line.
You're really good at this arent you.

It looks like about half a meter it pushed wide after contact.
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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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RZS10 wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:04 pm
In the race thread there has been a repeated argument about whether the contact put Lewis wider than he was going to be or not, some even claiming that it helped him take a tighter line somehow.

At normal speed it's not noticeable right away but his car gets unsettled quite a bit, but slowing the onboard video down to 0.25x speed (or going frame by frame) shows it really well, instead of a normal up/down bouncing there's a rotational element to his car's movement for a relatively long period of time, arguably 20-30frames (0.4-0.6s) potentially even more.

I made a gif and slowed the frames around the incident even further and painted in some lines over the suspension and left tyre and also some objects further away, once for initial turning before the contact and then for post contact, those objects obviously don't stay in the same place but it stil accentuates the motion, i believe:
https://s6.gifyu.com/images/crashee.gif

It's best visible on the right edge of the treeline.

Given how sensitive the aero on those cars is this surely must have had an impact on his line.
Outstanding work, thank you for your contributions to this forum.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Make RZS10 a moderator! Or give him / her a badge showing outstansing contribution.
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RZS10
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:22 pm
It looks like about half a meter it pushed wide after contact.
It's hard to quantify but the footage supports that he was indeed pushed or put wide by the contact, not only from the impact on his aero but simply by steering into the oversteer, which was a result of the contact, multiple times.

The oversteer is kinda visible in the onboard, fixating on any object that is further away ahead of him the rate at which it moves to the left in the footage suddenly increases post contact, whether his front was nudged towards the inside a bit [unlikely(?)] or the rear stepped out [more likely] or a combination of both, he had to catch it which would inevitably put him off line.

Image

The lines have roughly the same distance meaning that he's cornering with a consistent radius, then it's suddenly almost twice the distance, which would imply that his car somehow got additional rotation.

Also for the love of all that is holy, please don't make me a mod because i'd have to behave then :^)

Jolle
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:54 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:22 pm
It looks like about half a meter it pushed wide after contact.
It's hard to quantify but the footage supports that he was indeed pushed or put wide by the contact, not only from the impact on his aero but simply by steering into the oversteer, which was a result of the contact, multiple times.

The oversteer is kinda visible in the onboard, fixating on any object that is further away ahead of him the rate at which it moves to the left in the footage suddenly increases post contact, whether his front was nudged towards the inside a bit [unlikely(?)] or the rear stepped out [more likely] or a combination of both, he had to catch it which would inevitably put him off line.

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/rate.gif

The lines have roughly the same distance meaning that he's cornering with a consistent radius, then it's suddenly almost twice the distance, which would imply that his car somehow got additional rotation.

Also for the love of all that is holy, please don't make me a mod because i'd have to behave then :^)
From following frames you should see if it's a slide or a real rotation. For all we know (but we do of course), the next ten frames could be a massive spin.

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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:54 pm

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/rate.gif
Could we agree that this particular first lap has given us some of the best racing we have seen in years and regardless of the outcome, it is a real shame it ended right there.

We will just never know, I guess that just annoys me the most.

It doesn’t matter if ‘you’ are a Lewis or Max fan, both sides got ‘robbed’.
People should always be able to justify their actions

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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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And that why it sucks that it wasn't down as a racing incident. Punishing racers for those moves is only ever going to end up in us getting none of that first lap battle

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RZS10
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:31 pm
From following frames you should see if it's a slide or a real rotation. For all we know (but we do of course), the next ten frames could be a massive spin.
Without the correction(s) it might have been, who knows.

It's a brief oversteer or slide which he catches, might also just be the car hopping around - i checked it in the first place because i added more frames to the composite image and it suggested a (massive) slide but he obviously did not drift the entire corner, i do not want to post it because i'm not confident in the result and i know that it just can't be right with the inaccuracy caused by the huge change in camera angle.

But here's the next frames, no need for a gif i think:
Image

theblackangus
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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PhillipM wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:27 pm
And that why it sucks that it wasn't down as a racing incident. Punishing racers for those moves is only ever going to end up in us getting none of that first lap battle
Yeah it seems like we are moving toward no passing in corners.
If you are ahead entering a corner its yours. (Which is outright dumb).

If you <100% along on entry on the inside - you have to backout.
If you <100% along on entry on the outside you have to backout.
Oh and wait... you cant follow closely so you cant pass on the straights w/o a massive advantage in car.
More DRS is needed I guess....

Simple rule. If my car is there and I am in control, you cant turn into me.
This works on the outside and inside, almost like its common sense. :wink:

Jolle
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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theblackangus wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:05 am
PhillipM wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:27 pm
And that why it sucks that it wasn't down as a racing incident. Punishing racers for those moves is only ever going to end up in us getting none of that first lap battle
Yeah it seems like we are moving toward no passing in corners.
If you are ahead entering a corner its yours. (Which is outright dumb).

If you <100% along on entry on the inside - you have to backout.
If you <100% along on entry on the outside you have to backout.
Oh and wait... you cant follow closely so you cant pass on the straights w/o a massive advantage in car.
More DRS is needed I guess....

Simple rule. If my car is there and I am in control, you cant turn into me.
This works on the outside and inside, almost like its common sense. :wink:
Nah, we have this every few years and within a few GP’s there will be racing like before

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RZS10
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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In the latest RBR blog post Horner claimed the following:
"When you look at the incident closely, Max took a wider line into Copse compared to Leclerc when Hamilton overtook him in the race."
My initial grid which was taken from the composite and was a bit inaccurate had Max on a marginally tighter line, so i thought 'Why would he claim that?' ... so i redid the same thing but with seperate images with Leclerc and Verstappen in the same position on track and they were both pretty much on the same line, neither of them really tighter or wider.

Image
Image

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Nice. And Leclerc understeered with a lighter car and going a slower speed? I think the curve was different for both though. Max started tighter. As they approach the apex their lines will converge.
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RZS10
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Can't tell whether he understeered or opened up the steering a bit since his onboard is rear facing but i wouldn't be surprised if he deliberately left more space later in the corner despite initially coming from a wider entry line.

Hammerfist
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:02 am
Nice. And Leclerc understeered with a lighter car and going a slower speed? I think the curve was different for both though. Max started tighter. As they approach the apex their lines will converge.
I agree. I don't know what Horner is talking about. You're supposed to be far on the left as you enter copse, just like you would any right handed corner. Max was in the middle of the track and shading more towards the inside, and even as he approached, he was always closing in. Leclerc's line was much wider and the pic above confirms that. Some people need their eyes examined.

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GTO99
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Re: Hamilton - Verstappen Crash Frame by Frame Analysis

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Why did Ham's left tire or suspension not fail considering impact with Max's rear wheel of greater mass & forward momentum? Is it because Ham's left wheels are loaded and Max's right wheels are less loaded?