Safety Car Delta

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NathanOlder
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Safety Car Delta

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Does anyone know the safety car speed delta for the drivers on the lap the SC is launched ? How fast they can go before catching the SC ? I recall seeing for the Virtual Safety Car (VSC) that is says drivers much reduce speed by 40%. Is it the same for the Full Safety Car or is it slower/faster ?
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TimW
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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Good question! I expected it to be VSC conditions until you catch the safety car, but that seems incorrect.
Verstappen made a fuzz about Bottas dropping a gap to Hamilton but I heard no comment from race control (or complaints from RB to race control) about that, so that seems to be allowed. But if there are no rules then that would have given Bottas the option to make the gap to Hamilton much bigger, such that Hamilton would have got out in front of Verstappen. Since he did not do that, there probably is some limitation.

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Re: Safety Car Delta

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It is at least “double waved yellow” conditions since Japan 2014, so “slow down and be prepared to stop.

You can’t have someone doing 40% of very fast somewhere where there might be people on track.

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Re: Safety Car Delta

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TimW wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:10 pm
Good question! I expected it to be VSC conditions until you catch the safety car, but that seems incorrect.
Verstappen made a fuzz about Bottas dropping a gap to Hamilton but I heard no comment from race control (or complaints from RB to race control) about that, so that seems to be allowed. But if there are no rules then that would have given Bottas the option to make the gap to Hamilton much bigger, such that Hamilton would have got out in front of Verstappen. Since he did not do that, there probably is some limitation.
I guess they simply forgot to complain even after the race.
And tbh Max was in good position with that red flag.

Remember Bahrain 2018 I guess it was where Hamilton got a 5sec penalty for holding up Ricciardo in the way to the pits.
But may be here its different situation impeeding someone between the safety car lines.

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Big Tea
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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First time I noticed it, but the leading cars, while still driving to the set Delta time were faster than a tail ender. Logically a car doing a 1.28 lap cutting by 40% is going to be quicker than a car doing 1.31 cutting by 40%. I just had not realised they had different times and assumed it was % of the leading car
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Stu
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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Under safety car conditions they allow lapped cars to pass, they then go around at significantly greater pace than the SC in order to ‘catch the pack’.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

Jolle
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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Stu wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:25 pm
Under safety car conditions they allow lapped cars to pass, they then go around at significantly greater pace than the SC in order to ‘catch the pack’.
Only when the track is clear, under the directive of the race director.
The safety car drives a lot slower then 40% by the way.

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Big Tea
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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Stu wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:25 pm
Under safety car conditions they allow lapped cars to pass, they then go around at significantly greater pace than the SC in order to ‘catch the pack’.
They were under VSC
Mankind did not invent the laws of mathematics, we rediscovered them.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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With the incident with Bottas in Saudi, the gap from Lewis to Bottas was 2.7 sec when the yellow flags went out (mick crashed) it was then 3.0 just as the Safety Car was launched , it grew to 4.9 seconds (approx 5 seconds after SC went live), then went down to 2 seconds (approx 5 seconds later) . After this each time they crossed a mini sector (segment) the live timing updates. So I will post each time gap from just before the yellow flag, to when Lewis and Valtteri pit.

2.7 (yellow flag)
3.0 (SC Launched)
4.9
2.0
3.3
5.1
7.0
8.7
7.3
6.8
9.2
9.7
7.6
7.7
7.8 (Lewis enters pit lane)
7.9 (Valtteri enters pit lane)


To me it looks like the SC delta is a window that you must stay in. So depending on where you are on track and the corresponding speed in race conditions , it will allow the gap to shrink and grow. It went from 2.0 up to 9.7 all under SC.

If the gap was at 3.0 on a straight where you do 200mph, if they reduce speed by 50% the gap will now be 6 seconds. so If they must reduce speed by around 60% then the gap would grow to around 8.5seconds. So when they pit and the gap was 7.8 seconds. It is highly likely that BBottas didn't cost Max any time at all. But what is most important is what the delta is while driving the lap the SC is launched and you have to catch the safety car.
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RZS10
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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Another way to check it would be looking at positions on tracker before Mick stuffed it into the tecpro and just when Lewis entered the pits, compare Bottas' position with Lewis being roughly at pit entry both times.

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Re: Safety Car Delta

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:53 pm

If the gap was at 3.0 on a straight where you do 200mph, if they reduce speed by 50% the gap will now be 6 seconds. so If they must reduce speed by around 60% then the gap would grow to around 8.5seconds. So when they pit and the gap was 7.8 seconds. It is highly likely that BBottas didn't cost Max any time at all. But what is most important is what the delta is while driving the lap the SC is launched and you have to catch the safety car.
In that case all of the following cars would also have gotten increased gaps. Now it was just Bottas holding up those behind.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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nokivasara wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:43 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:53 pm

If the gap was at 3.0 on a straight where you do 200mph, if they reduce speed by 50% the gap will now be 6 seconds. so If they must reduce speed by around 60% then the gap would grow to around 8.5seconds. So when they pit and the gap was 7.8 seconds. It is highly likely that BBottas didn't cost Max any time at all. But what is most important is what the delta is while driving the lap the SC is launched and you have to catch the safety car.
In that case all of the following cars would also have gotten increased gaps. Now it was just Bottas holding up those behind.
Well if you actually look at the numbers, only Verstappen and Leclerc closed the gap of the top 10 runners. Everyone else in the top 10 saw the gap grow which is what has to happen under safety car as you have to reduce speed. The distance to the car ahead is the same, but your speed is slower so the time to the car ahead must increase. Simple really.
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:19 pm
nokivasara wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:43 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:53 pm

If the gap was at 3.0 on a straight where you do 200mph, if they reduce speed by 50% the gap will now be 6 seconds. so If they must reduce speed by around 60% then the gap would grow to around 8.5seconds. So when they pit and the gap was 7.8 seconds. It is highly likely that BBottas didn't cost Max any time at all. But what is most important is what the delta is while driving the lap the SC is launched and you have to catch the safety car.
In that case all of the following cars would also have gotten increased gaps. Now it was just Bottas holding up those behind.
Well if you actually look at the numbers, only Verstappen and Leclerc closed the gap of the top 10 runners. Everyone else in the top 10 saw the gap grow which is what has to happen under safety car as you have to reduce speed. The distance to the car ahead is the same, but your speed is slower so the time to the car ahead must increase. Simple really.
OK, I didn't look at the data, sorry. Just felt like Bottas was holding everyone up more than necessary at the time.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Safety Car Delta

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nokivasara wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:24 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:19 pm
nokivasara wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:43 pm


In that case all of the following cars would also have gotten increased gaps. Now it was just Bottas holding up those behind.
Well if you actually look at the numbers, only Verstappen and Leclerc closed the gap of the top 10 runners. Everyone else in the top 10 saw the gap grow which is what has to happen under safety car as you have to reduce speed. The distance to the car ahead is the same, but your speed is slower so the time to the car ahead must increase. Simple really.
OK, I didn't look at the data, sorry. Just felt like Bottas was holding everyone up more than necessary at the time.
Yeah I think everyone assumed that as we only heard Max on the radio complaining.

Thr whole point of this thread was to see if anyone knew what speed the drivers are required to drop to when the SC is launched. this way we can actually find out if any of the drivers were driving too slowly. but it seems no one actually knows
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