Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
AeroDynamic
294
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post

Can anyone provide what F1 began to broadcast in the final,phase of the championship where they displayed the driver reaction time in ms?

Was this info available all season long on F1 tv etc?

I was curious to compare the starts between the two title protagonists. I thought it was interesting in the season where in the first half, more often then not, verstappen with his team executed really good starts. This seemed to turn the other way around in the last stretch or the championship after Monza? Or atleast it did for Hamilton and his Mercedes’ team. For verstappen and red bull, I’m not sure when that started. You could argue Monza because ricciardo did best him on the race start there.

So, if someone can Provide the reaction times between the two title protagonists in every weekend, inc sprints, I would really appreciate that.


Now the technical aspect of the discussion:

What goes into executing a good start?

Driver:

Reaction time
Clutch release control rate?
Tyre temperature management

Team / car

This is where my knowledge falls very short. And would really appreciate the technically knowledge members to break down what the teams development and design bring to the table.

Why did it appear the RB was so good on starts early in the season, and Mercedes slower. And why did this seem to swing the other way towards the end?

Honda suggested engine plays a role in starts after making improvements early in the season to facilitate some of the really great starts the RB could deliver off the line.

It seems like Mercedes’ worked on their starts as well, but then I would expect them to be even with RB, not for RB to seemingly struggle when Mercedes’ improves?

Turn that system up and pump it all around the town
Keep the levels high so that you can feel my funky sound
Gotta get with my peeps and see what's goin' down tonight
Volume can't be low 'cause we need to turn it up just right

User avatar
ispano6
114
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post

Max had good starts at Mexico and Brazil. Honda made changes to improve launches but it really comes down to driver reaction times and nerves. Lewis has his left hand over the top of the steering wheel for starts. Not sure if that is some kind of trick clutch.

User avatar
AeroDynamic
294
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post

ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:26 am
Max had good starts at Mexico and Brazil. Honda made changes to improve launches but it really comes down to driver reaction times and nerves. Lewis has his left hand over the top of the steering wheel for starts. Not sure if that is some kind of trick clutch.
How can you cite Mexico as an example of a good start for Max? It was competitive enough not to fall behind, bit was slower in reaction time than to Lewis, and he did not get alongside anyone in front of him.

I don’t think there’s any trick to Hamilton’s technique, it’s not new and it’s been there when his starts weren’t competitive at all.

Turn that system up and pump it all around the town
Keep the levels high so that you can feel my funky sound
Gotta get with my peeps and see what's goin' down tonight
Volume can't be low 'cause we need to turn it up just right

User avatar
ispano6
114
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:38 am
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:26 am
Max had good starts at Mexico and Brazil. Honda made changes to improve launches but it really comes down to driver reaction times and nerves. Lewis has his left hand over the top of the steering wheel for starts. Not sure if that is some kind of trick clutch.
How can you cite Mexico as an example of a good start for Max? It was competitive enough not to fall behind, bit was slower in reaction time than to Lewis, and he did not get alongside anyone in front of him.

I don’t think there’s any trick to Hamilton’s technique, it’s not new and it’s been there when his starts weren’t competitive at all.
What constitutes a good start? In my book, a good start is entering turn 1 in first position. So by that measure Mexico was a good start. Abu Dhabi was a poor start both in reaction time but also wheelspin. Honda made changes to their power unit to make launches more controllable in terms of torque control. I don't share your sentiment that RedBull's starts became worse and that Mercedes improved over the second half of the season is all.

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
214
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post

It seems to me that if you have a good clear static overhead video of the start it would not be hard to do computer image analysis to create a velocity vs time profile for the cars on the front of the grid. That could start a thousand arguments per race. Hmm, I've just realised that the software I use for analysing crash test videos can do exactly that. I select a bunch of pixels on the target, the software then tracks its location against time. The most difficult bit would be the scaling.

If the camera moves you need to do the same with the track and surroundings.

Hmmm....

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post

Greg Locock wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:09 am
It seems to me that if you have a good clear static overhead video of the start it would not be hard to do computer image analysis to create a velocity vs time profile for the cars on the front of the grid. That could start a thousand arguments per race. Hmm, I've just realised that the software I use for analysing crash test videos can do exactly that. I select a bunch of pixels on the target, the software then tracks its location against time. The most difficult bit would be the scaling.

If the camera moves you need to do the same with the track and surroundings.

Hmmm....
That has got project written all over it!!
I would assume that the figures released by F1 are derived from the jump-start sensors embedded in the grid, so would not be capable of doing what you are capable of doing from a visual, digital stream. Imagine being able to track car speeds/accelerations like this around the whole track….
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

User avatar
AeroDynamic
294
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Race Starts - Technical analysis and discussion.

Post

ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:58 am
AeroDynamic wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:38 am
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:26 am
Max had good starts at Mexico and Brazil. Honda made changes to improve launches but it really comes down to driver reaction times and nerves. Lewis has his left hand over the top of the steering wheel for starts. Not sure if that is some kind of trick clutch.
How can you cite Mexico as an example of a good start for Max? It was competitive enough not to fall behind, bit was slower in reaction time than to Lewis, and he did not get alongside anyone in front of him.

I don’t think there’s any trick to Hamilton’s technique, it’s not new and it’s been there when his starts weren’t competitive at all.
What constitutes a good start? In my book, a good start is entering turn 1 in first position. So by that measure Mexico was a good start. Abu Dhabi was a poor start both in reaction time but also wheelspin. Honda made changes to their power unit to make launches more controllable in terms of torque control. I don't share your sentiment that RedBull's starts became worse and that Mercedes improved over the second half of the season is all.
The thread, if it wasn’t clear enough, is analysing the phase of the Grand Prix start that involves getting off the line exceptionally well, or poorly, relative to the person in front or behind. It is the part that Rob Smedley is leading the analysis on with AWS since Turkey;

https://aws.amazon.com/f1/start-analysis/



Mexico all three had competitive starts it was neither good or bad. There’s no need to analyse the first corner overtake, that was more about slipstream which the Mexican Grand Prix is well known for. The start of the RB was in fact slower in all measures to the MCS in position 2 in terms of reaction time and getting up to speed.


Turn that system up and pump it all around the town
Keep the levels high so that you can feel my funky sound
Gotta get with my peeps and see what's goin' down tonight
Volume can't be low 'cause we need to turn it up just right