JOHN WATSON 1983 F1 GRAND PRIX

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jayfinn3
jayfinn3
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Joined: 30 Nov 2007, 06:41

JOHN WATSON 1983 F1 GRAND PRIX

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DID HE START 22 SECOND OR 23TH TO WIN THE RACE CAUSE SPEED TV SAID ON 2005 SUSUKA RACE HE STARTED 23TH AND KIMI RAIKKONEN STARTED 20TH ON 2005 TO WIN THE RACE IS THIS CORRECT LIKE TO KNOW TY

kimi
kimi
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Joined: 06 Jul 2007, 19:19
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Well I guess Kimi started 17th on the grid at Suzuka.I just checked the report on formula1.com and according to it Kimi made up 17 places to win that race.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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Well, I'm a little confused. In 1983 there was no Suzuka race. I'm sure I watched the race you mention.

Watson started 22 in United States GP that year (I looked it up), because the tyres were not good in qualy (McLaren used Michelin and Ferrari used Goodyear, I think). During race tyre performance reversed and Michelin hanged on better than Pirelli and Goodyear, giving an easy 1-2 to McLaren.

Jhonny Cecotto, the great venezuelan motorcycle champion ended in a good position in his second race, on a Theodore, a fact more remarkable for me than Watson position. The colombian Roberto Guerrero qualified eight, also in a Theodore, a fact I remember well. That was the reason why I watched that race with great interest: after rooting for years for James Hunt, for the first time in my life I had a colombian to support on the grid.

Things were right as they are now. For example, at the end of the year Watson was axed by McLaren.
Ciro

Belatti
Belatti
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Yeah, but Watson was too old and not a World champion :D

And, sorry Ciro, but Guerrero qualified 18 and his race finished in lap 27 with gearbox problems. :roll:

Here, a short biography Roberto Guerrero
Nationality: Colombia
Date of birth: November 16, 1958 - Medellin, Colombia

Unobtrusively talented graduate of Jim Russell's famous UK-based racing driver's school, Guerrero raced effectively in Formula 3 up until 1981. With sponsorship from Cafe do Colombia he bought a season with Mo Nunn's tiny Ensign team, continuing when it became Theodore Racing the following year. When it became clear that Formula 1 was not going to lead him much further, he moved to America and carved his career on the Indycar scene despite surviving an accident testing at Indianapolis in 1987 which left him in a coma for 17 days.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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Belatti, I saw the race. He qualified eight. The rear bodywork was too wide and the car was demoted, it could be to 18th, I don't remember. The fact is that he did well on a less than brilliant car and I'm sure that's the position he earned based on time, not on technical issues.

Besides, as a friend of mine uses to say: "Who are you going to believe? Me or your own eyes?" :)

As usual, I grasp from your post, on such a narrow thread, to fulfill my "latinist" agenda :oops::

For a better biography, I could add that Roberto Guerrero held the fastest lap record at Indy for a handful of years. After that incredible qualy, that put him for some time as the fastest man in american history, he crashed on the start of lap 1 at Indy.

Let me add that it was a relief to see Juan winning that same race years later: until the last lap, Guerrero's gaffe memoires lingered on the track.

He left F1 when he found himself without a team or another seat, so he moved to a more appealing cultural environment: he earned Indy 500 and CART rookie award after moving to USA. Next year, his performance was not as expected. On Indy he had a great start, ending second twice in four years.... to follow with one of the worst streaks in modern history (mmm.... I detect what could be a pattern for colombian drivers :)).

Besides, for those who think that Montoya was aggresive with cars, I could explain what means to see a driver trying to qualify for 31 Formula One races (on a dog of a car, I concede) and watch him ending only 5.

The spicy part is that Roberto Guerrero married Kodak's daughter.

As for Kimi driving like Watson, I better compare him with Hunt. Both evaded the world the best they could and maybe they were (are) sort of a party animal.

Finally, it's well known that, when Kimi inscribed last year for a snowmobile race, he used the name "James Hunt". Unfortunately, Hunt never won a race starting from the back, that I know.
Ciro

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

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Well, I believe grandprix.com rather than your own eyes :lol:

http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr375.html

Its OK man, you are lucky you have Monty, I have got Tuero, Fontana, Mazzacane, Larrauri...
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

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Belatti, Belatti... Your own link at Gp.com says:

"Roberto Guerrero impressed everyone by qualifying his Theodore eighth" (me included, if I may add).

It says eighth, not eighteenth. That's "octavo", not "décimoctavo". Ocho. 8. VIII. Acht.

It also says "but the car was later excluded for having rear bodywork which was slightly too wide". Ehem... the few neurones left after my wild youth still work.

When will you people learn that I'm never wrong? Sigh.

I don't argue too much about drivers, because of modesty about Montoya, :) but I have to extend myself a little, or next time you'll say Monty, with a hand tied behind his back (or in a cast, after a tennis accident) and a hamburger in his mouth, isn't better than the bunch of argentinians you mention, put together... Have you not shame?

I throw you Button and Schumacher (Ralph) as a bonus and still they have no chance against Guerrero or the great Martín Cárdenas. And I'm not being nationalist or anything... not at all. If you'd mentioned Sebastián Porto, Fangio, Gálvez, "Lole" Reutemann, or the incomparable José Froilán González things could be different, but Mazzacane? ;)

Blind, unbeliever world. Why, oh, why can't we get along? All you have to do, people, is to agree with me on everything. Is that so hard? :lol:
Ciro

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

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Ups! Sorry :oops: didn´t read, just sae the chart... ehhh :roll: nevermind

Yeah, I mentioned Mazzacane, the last Argentina F1 driver, maybe I could be faster than him, sometimes I wonder how the hell he had an opportunity. Didnt you notice I was being sarcastic :?: :!: :?:

So, again, you are lucky to have a national hero these days, cause our (Argies) national Heroes are all dead or gone

Other Subject:
Reading about Schumachers return, I recall seeing with my own eyes Reutemann with the 94´Ferrari in the 95´ Buenos Aires GP, on Friday practice, setting the 11th time. Not bad for a guy that retired 14 years before, hu!?

Yeah, I know, now you will tell me that he had 500cc extra, but it was a rainy day, maybe without optimal car setup and even like that he set 11th.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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http://www.formula1.com/results/season/1983/328/

1983 USA West Grand Prix

Pos-No-Driver-Team-Laps-Time/Retired-Grid-Pts

1 7 John Watson McLaren-Ford 75 1:53'34.889 22 9

2 8 Niki Lauda McLaren-Ford 75 + 27.993 23 6

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1983/226.html

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Here's a funny link though, the first thing I noticed in Belatti's short bio:
Unobtrusively talented graduate of Jim Russell's famous UK-based racing driver's school, Guerrero raced effectively in Formula 3 up until 1981. With sponsorship from Cafe do Colombia he bought a season with Mo Nunn's tiny Ensign team, continuing when it became Theodore Racing the following year. When it became clear that Formula 1 was not going to lead him much further, he moved to America and carved his career on the Indycar scene despite surviving an accident testing at Indianapolis in 1987 which left him in a coma for 17 days.
I know of Mo Nunn from Zanardi's autobiography. Nunn was crew cheif of Zanardi's Chip Ganassi Racing Champ Car before Alex left fot F1 and was replaced by, yes, thats right, JP Montoya.
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