Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

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Giblet
Giblet
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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I've always respected the proffionalism and German precision that Mercedes has brought the sport.

I see how that with the Mercedes road cars coming out that they couldn't be partners anymore.

Partnering with Brawn would have been one thing, but I think it is a bit presumptuous to swoop in and outright label them as Mercedes Silver Arrows. The ones in the past were more of a bespoke car, not a partnership. I understand the decision as it is their 75th anniversary, but it sort of screams opportunity and cheese more than innovation and domination, like the old Silver Arrows.

Next year I will see a big red and white H faintly through the silver paint.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

deus1066
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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My understanding is that they will be renamed "Mercedes GP" as the news article says:

"The team will consequently be renamed to Mercedes GP and looks set to run world champion Jenson Button and Nico Rosberg in 2010."

But I agree that Mercedes has been quite good about things, by sticking with Mclaren during Spy gate, Lie gate and the lost championships in 2003, 2005 and 2007, and only now when things are looking more promising for the future they withdraw. Also, by giving Mclaren untill 2011 to buy back their shares at a very reasonable price and supplying Mclaren with engines for another 6 seasons with the option of more thereafter it gives them stability for the future while they get their automotive sector up and running.

Its also good to see a manufacturer making a stong commitment to F1 after the loss of Honda, BMW, Toyota and maybe Renault.

Giblet
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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In the release they keep using the term Silver Arrows about the two cars. If they paint/brand the two cars like the Silver Arrows of old, and win, the victory to me will be somewhat hollow. Mclaren was running Mclarens with Merc engines, and Merc wasn't the teams owner.

This is totally different.

The Mclaren partnership took time to bear fruit, and both sides stuck beside each other at rough times.

Mercedes is going to be fielding two Silver Brawn designed cars next year, and if they win "Mercedes did it".
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

timbo
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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Giblet wrote:In the release they keep using the term Silver Arrows about the two cars. If they paint/brand the two cars like the Silver Arrows of old, and win, the victory to me will be somewhat hollow. Mclaren was running Mclarens with Merc engines, and Merc wasn't the teams owner.

This is totally different.

The Mclaren partnership took time to bear fruit, and both sides stuck beside each other at rough times.

Mercedes is going to be fielding two Silver Brawn designed cars next year, and if they win "Mercedes did it".
It's not that Mercedes didn't assist them thru hard times already.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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richard_leeds wrote:
Rob W wrote:agreed value on shares when there is really only one possible buyer is almost always below what you'd get if it was a truly open-market sale. This is simply the hit Mercedes were willing to take to go into running their own team. Good on them for making such a big change.
Also, today's valuation of the team's value will be a lot less than 18 months ago so that helps Ron. If rumours are correct that the shares haven't changed in price, then Ron has made a financial killing because he's got the development and investment for free (and no inflation either!)
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/11/ ... d-mclaren/

According to Michael Schmidt who is being referred to by Joe Saward Ron Dennis initial demands were 500 mil $ higher. He wanted the shares for free and additional 300mil$ on top. Now he is considered to have made a financial killing. It speaks volumes about the realism of the opening position. To me it looks likely that both sides will have gained an important point and that they cut a deal which reflects that in fairness.

Merc can run their works F1 team on a much leaner budget and ultimately make the decisions - if they have got the skill.
McLaren get a shot at conquering the super car market - if they can.

I do not know which Job is more difficult. Merc have hired Ross Brawn for their new venture. At McLaren Ron Dennis is the man in control of the automotive business. Time will tell who will prevail in the challenges ahead.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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ackzsel
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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Will Mercedes GP use KERS in 2010? I can imagine they have no ears to the gentlemen agreement not to use it.

deus1066
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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ackzsel wrote:Will Mercedes GP use KERS in 2010? I can imagine they have no ears to the gentlemen agreement not to use it.
Its probably too late to shoehorn KERS into the car, as I would imagine the 2010 chasis is very far along in its development. Then again, if Mercedes want it they can have it as they'll foot the bill for developing and manufacturing a new chasis for it.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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MercGP are not a new team. In effect BrawnGP landed a title sponsor which happens to be the majority share holder as well. That the teams legal status with FIA and FOM does not change is indicated by the 60 mil $ they will get paid by Bernie and the No 1,2garages they will have in the pit lane.

They will have a smaller hospitality because Ron will surely keep his palace but it will cost him quite a coin to run this without Merc's money in the future. Watch out for McLaren going for big sponsorship deal of other teams to fill the gap.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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ackzsel
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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deus1066 wrote:Its probably too late to shoehorn KERS into the car, as I would imagine the 2010 chasis is very far along in its development. Then again, if Mercedes want it they can have it as they'll foot the bill for developing and manufacturing a new chasis for it.
I forgot about the time span. #-o Integrating KERS into a car before the 2010 season start is a bit ambitious. 2011 will be a whole other story I guess, so just forget about the KERS speculation then.

Another thing: Orange livery for McLaren in 2010? Would be great!

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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How the cars could look in the future:

Image

Altho i would like to say that some sponsorship would add to the car and its looks.

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outer_bongolia
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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ESPImperium wrote:How the cars could look in the future:

Image

Altho i would like to say that some sponsorship would add to the car and its looks.
No wheel covers, though... :D
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.
Carl Sagan

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Ayrton Senna
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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However ..

Mercedes company as a team factory come back again to F1 since have won title Juan Manuel Fangio in 1955 ! 8) 8)

Image
Last edited by Ayrton Senna on Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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outer_bongolia
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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One thing that this separation brings up is whether Mercedes will be able to supply engines to additional teams. I was definitely disappointed when McLaren blocked the Red Bull from getting a Mercedes engine.
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.
Carl Sagan

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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Add the Lotus name in there, who said that the big names in motorsport wont be there.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Mercedes Benz Buy Brawn GP

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McLaren were certainly in a position to veto Merc engines to Red Bull in 2010. Merc were desperate to have Vettel associated with the three pointed star. They even gifted him a 500,000 € super car for one foto opportunity. It rests to be seen which restrictions were lifted in the deal. Dr. Zetsche said there are still things the parties cannot do subject to prior agreements. Engines to Red Bull are probably one of those.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)