Yes, that is true but the gaps are significantly different. It would be a much closer finale under the old points system.bettonracing wrote:Maybe based on the fact that after 15 races the WDC orders are identical for positions 1 thru 8?...Tumbarello wrote: How can any body say the new points system isn't making a difference?...
The "2nds" that came up in the calculations are purely incidental. I didn't chose them specifically, I chose the highest placing as a common factor in relation to the points.raymondu999 wrote: Its quite apt that you chose "2nd"s in your comparison.
They both have the same thing result.raymondu999 wrote:It would have been a much better idea to actually increase the points for a win, rather than decrease it for 2nd place.
Large gap vs small gap. "Tomayto" vs "Tomahto". <- Same thing! We'll see how it turns out at the end of the season. As of right now, it hasn't done anything special except reward the midfielders for 9th & 10th. (See Sutil vs Schumi in both systems).Tumbarello wrote:Yes, that is true but the gaps are significantly different. It would be a much closer finale under the old points system.bettonracing wrote:Maybe based on the fact that after 15 races the WDC orders are identical for positions 1 thru 8?...Tumbarello wrote: How can any body say the new points system isn't making a difference?...
So what did you want it do, reverse the order from first to last? The margins are more significant in any championship than the order as the latter is very much dependent on the former, not the other way around.bettonracing wrote:
Large gap vs small gap. "Tomayto" vs "Tomahto". <- Same thing! We'll see how it turns out at the end of the season. As of right now, it hasn't done anything special except reward the midfielders for 9th & 10th. (See Sutil vs Schumi in both systems).
Don't be silly. Rewards are not given for large or small gaps to the nearest competitor. However, rewards are given for different positions (e.g. car number). As of today, the new points system has NOT rewarded any of the first 8 drivers in the WDC. This may change by the end of the season. Until then, I'm unconvinced.Tumbarello wrote:So what did you want it do, reverse the order from first to last? The margins are more significant in any championship than the order as the latter is very much dependent on the former, not the other way around.bettonracing wrote:
Large gap vs small gap. "Tomayto" vs "Tomahto". <- Same thing! We'll see how it turns out at the end of the season. As of right now, it hasn't done anything special except reward the midfielders for 9th & 10th. (See Sutil vs Schumi in both systems).
Rewards are not given when you're mathematically in danger of losing positions in the order either and it is this aspect, in terms of degrees, that HAS been altered by the new points system. All drivers except Webber and Alonso, are more outsiders under the new points systems than they would have been under the old system. This alters the dynamics in the thinking of teams and drivers in the championship.bettonracing wrote:Don't be silly. Rewards are not given for large or small gaps to the nearest competitor. However, rewards are given for different positions (e.g. car number). As of today, the new points system has NOT rewarded any of the first 8 drivers in the WDC. This may change by the end of the season. Until then, I'm unconvinced.
If You finish 1 point or 1million points behind the winner (or even the guy in front of You), YOU LOSE.
More pen and paper hypothesis. You're hoping/ assuming that the greater points spread will give the teams a greater sense of urgency and force them to be more aggressive. I believe the specifics of the season (i.e. the number of drivers in contention, the specific drivers in contention, and their various strengths this season) would have resulted in the same levels of aggressiveness. Nobody (in contention) would be, or will be, going to Japan thinking "I can settle for 4th".Tumbarello wrote:Rewards are not given when you're mathematically in danger of losing positions in the order either and it is this aspect, in terms of degrees, that HAS been altered by the new points system. All drivers except Webber and Alonso, are more outsiders under the new points systems than they would have been under the old system. This alters the dynamics in the thinking of teams and drivers in the championship.
Imagine if we had another scoring system, say one in which only wins count. The order would be exactly the same as it is currently or under last year's system and yet Webber and Alonso would be miles ahead as their nearest competitor would need to win at least 3 of the remaining 4 races to get ahead of them.
I'm not hoping anything. What I am saying is that the greater points spread will mean that team priorities will be different to what it would be when their drivers are closer together in points. This is a fairly reasonable assumption and we see it year in year out.bettonracing wrote:More pen and paper hypothesis. You're hoping/ assuming that the greater points spread will give the teams a greater sense of urgency and force them to be more aggressive. I believe the specifics of the season (i.e. the number of drivers in contention, the specific drivers in contention, and their various strengths this season) would have resulted in the same levels of aggressiveness. Nobody (in contention) would be, or will be, going to Japan thinking "I can settle for 4th".Tumbarello wrote:Rewards are not given when you're mathematically in danger of losing positions in the order either and it is this aspect, in terms of degrees, that HAS been altered by the new points system. All drivers except Webber and Alonso, are more outsiders under the new points systems than they would have been under the old system. This alters the dynamics in the thinking of teams and drivers in the championship.
Imagine if we had another scoring system, say one in which only wins count. The order would be exactly the same as it is currently or under last year's system and yet Webber and Alonso would be miles ahead as their nearest competitor would need to win at least 3 of the remaining 4 races to get ahead of them.
Regards,
H. Kurt Betton
*sigh*Tumbarello wrote: I'm not hoping anything. What I am saying is that the greater points spread will mean that team priorities will be different to what it would be when their drivers are closer together in points. This is a fairly reasonable assumption and we see it year in year out.
I haven't worked out the figures but perhaps Massa would not have moved over so easily for Alonso in Germany under the old points system, for example.
Blasphemy! Witch! Burn him!Jenson Button wrote:
"I think the new points systems has definitely amplified what people think of the standings, but I've always imagined the points as they would have been under last year's system: so, in old money, I'm 10 points off Mark, and Lewis is about eight or nine behind him. And, with four races to go, that's not much at all."
"When you say you're 25 points off the lead, that sounds a lot, but it's just easier for me to reference it by the old system. It makes it seem easier to understand and compute, too."
"So, as I said, there's not going to be one pivotal race, except perhaps for the final one, it's just about taking home the points every weekend."
