2011Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

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Pedro
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:18 pm

raymondu999 wrote:Interesting. All the engines have 3 teams each, but the Cossie has half the mileage of the Ferrari?
During the last test in Barcelona - yes.
However they did better considering all four pre-season test.

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Byronrhys
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:50 am

raymondu999 wrote:Interesting. All the engines have 3 teams each, but the Cossie has half the mileage of the Ferrari?
Whats so interesting, HRT are not there to help rack up miles so its just normal.

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becool70
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:29 am

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:On what basis would anyone put Renault ahead of Mercedes?
They showed less speed and less consistency then the Merc, especially the final test.
hehehe I am a RF1 fan too and I have faith in them... :D :D

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FrukostScones
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:40 pm

AutoMotorUndSport.de reports that there are rumors that Alonso carried on his quick 1.21,614 lap only 15Kg of fuel and ran on supersoft tyres!!!!
But in terms of tyre conservation the Ferrari is one of the best or the best.

speedsense
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:23 pm

FrukostScones wrote:AutoMotorUndSport.de reports that there are rumors that Alonso carried on his quick 1.21,614 lap only 15Kg of fuel and ran on supersoft tyres!!!!
But in terms of tyre conservation the Ferrari is one of the best or the best.
In all of the testing times, one car had the most consistent (within .5 secs) 14 lap run and stopped without changing tires, went back out for three laps running 1 sec faster than the previous 14 laps.

That was Barichello in the Williams.... no other car tested with such consistency or with no drop off in laptime...IMHO
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus

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FrukostScones
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:46 pm

speedsense wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:AutoMotorUndSport.de reports that there are rumors that Alonso carried on his quick 1.21,614 lap only 15Kg of fuel and ran on supersoft tyres!!!!
But in terms of tyre conservation the Ferrari is one of the best or the best.
In all of the testing times, one car had the most consistent (within .5 secs) 14 lap run and stopped without changing tires, went back out for three laps running 1 sec faster than the previous 14 laps.

That was Barichello in the Williams.... no other car tested with such consistency or with no drop off in laptime...IMHO
yes I noticed that. I found that a bit strange. I think the car was lighter than the 1.29 times it ran showed.
Or maybe Williams found the key!
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

speedsense
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:37 pm

FrukostScones wrote:
speedsense wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:AutoMotorUndSport.de reports that there are rumors that Alonso carried on his quick 1.21,614 lap only 15Kg of fuel and ran on supersoft tyres!!!!
But in terms of tyre conservation the Ferrari is one of the best or the best.
In all of the testing times, one car had the most consistent (within .5 secs) 14 lap run and stopped without changing tires, went back out for three laps running 1 sec faster than the previous 14 laps.

That was Barichello in the Williams.... no other car tested with such consistency or with no drop off in laptime...IMHO
yes I noticed that. I found that a bit strange. I think the car was lighter than the 1.29 times it ran showed.
Or maybe Williams found the key!
On the same day, Webber ran a Low 22.. then switched tires and did a long run (12 or 13 laps), within an hour of Barichello's run... Webber did 28.5, couple high 28,s five or six high 29's then dropped to 32's and 33's on the last four laps.
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus

snowy
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:16 pm

Barrichello's Race Simulation compared to Alonso's. And Schumacher's from the first Barcelona test before all the upgrades took effect:
Alonso		Barrichello	Schuey
01:29.630	01:30.751	01:30.456
01:29.322	01:30.227	01:30.657
01:29.339	01:31.025	01:31.326
01:29.675	01:31.079	01:31.206
01:29.591	01:31.914	01:31.526
01:30.117	01:31.989	01:31.998
01:30.020	01:32.178	01:32.517
01:30.462	01:32.186	01:33.481
Pit__Stop	01:32.759	01:33.516
Pit__Stop	01:33.523	01:33.564
01:28.849	Pit__Stop	01:33.685
01:28.950	Pit__Stop	01:33.803
01:28.653	01:31.309	01:34.814
01:29.051	01:32.050	Pit__Stop
01:29.307	01:31.651	Pit__Stop
01:30.796	01:31.765	01:31.982
01:29.559	01:31.636	01:32.432
01:30.026	01:31.429	01:32.227
01:30.386	01:31.731	01:31.331
01:30.102	01:31.525	01:31.714
01:30.767	01:31.536	01:31.782
01:30.743	01:31.414	01:31.785
01:30.920	01:31.458	01:31.764
Pit__Stop	01:31.600	01:32.312
Pit__Stop	01:31.942	01:32.524
01:27.255	01:32.365	01:32.361
01:28.427	Pit__Stop	01:32.878
01:27.470	Pit__Stop	01:33.076
01:28.143	01:30.864	Pit__Stop
01:30.392	01:30.844	Pit__Stop
01:27.907	01:31.644	01:29.095
01:28.110	01:30.799	01:29.803
01:28.005	01:30.904	01:30.247
01:28.441	01:30.993	01:30.220
01:28.676	01:31.060	01:30.629
01:28.796	01:31.914	01:30.268
01:29.163	01:30.751	01:30.150
Pit__Stop	01:30.965	01:31.079
Pit__Stop	01:31.210	01:30.578
01:27.320	01:31.990	01:31.077
01:27.477	Pit__Stop	01:30.650
01:49.591	Pit__Stop	01:30.426
01:56.505	01:29.952	01:30.473
01:27.617	01:30.020	01:30.937
01:27.205	01:29.468	01:31.015
01:27.623	01:29.618	01:31.870
01:27.674	01:31.070	Pit__Stop
01:27.897	01:30.083	Pit__Stop
01:28.030	01:30.162	01:27.569
Pit__Stop	01:29.828	01:28.356
Pit__Stop	01:30.235	01:28.644
01:25.510	01:30.317	01:28.706
01:25.958	01:30.690	01:28.400
Red Flag 	01:31.000	01:28.435
01:25.958	Pit__Stop	01:29.407
01:26.716	Pit__Stop	01:31.284
01:26.151	01:29.786	01:30.283
01:26.094	01:29.631	01:29.830
01:26.450	01:28.265	01:29.885
01:26.761	01:28.217	01:30.545
01:26.961	01:28.458	01:30.232
01:26.915	01:28.447	---------
01:27.186	01:28.653	---------
---------	01:28.094	---------

bot6
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:28 pm

Three pit stops for Schumi as opposed to four for the others... So much for the Mercedes chewing up the tires. But we have to remember these were not done the same day, or even the same week. So track temperature and weather will make quite a big difference.

At that point, I see the Ferrari around 1.5s quicker than the Mercedes, which would put it only about 0.5s ahead after the updates, but again with times set on different days, it means very little.

LionKing
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:53 am

speedsense wrote: In all of the testing times, one car had the most consistent (within .5 secs) 14 lap run and stopped without changing tires, went back out for three laps running 1 sec faster than the previous 14 laps.

That was Barichello in the Williams.... no other car tested with such consistency or with no drop off in laptime...IMHO
So if he did not change the tires, where did this one second improvement come from? Same tires, almost same fuel load, etc.. Interesting.....

marcush.
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:13 am

3 stops vs 4 you will need a lot of extra speed in the car to make up for another stop even if you had no overtaking to do.
the 4 stopper will inevitably lead to a lot of overtaking to be done in the last laps when your overall elapsed time is not a lot quicker .And if it was ,why not conserve the tyres a bit more and save one stop -erasing the added risk of an additional stop?
I think a lot of teams will be very conservative in the first races ...not fighting for position no daring moves as the tyres will answer by losing their edge much quicker.the patient guys will have a clear advantage .-As soon as you got breathing space you need to push ,but not too much...so the ones trapped behind will wait for the guy in front to pit and make up lost ground.

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raymondu999
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:12 pm

I was thinking along those lines too. Also, would it even be possible to have tyre deg so different as to save on a pitstop? If we work on crude maths (not taking into account changing fuel etc) we soon find that in a situation with 3 vs 4 stops, the guy doing 3 stops (4 stints) must do 5/4 the laps of the one doing 4 stops (5 stints). That's tantamount to a 25% decrease in tyre wear. Did Prost and Senna ever get to a position where one could save an entire pitstop?

Save for Michael Schumacher's funky 5-stop race back in his Ferrari heyday. 4 or 5. I can't remember which.
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marcush.
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:21 pm

In the prost days there was no regulatory tyre stop .And for example Neweys Leytonhouse in the hands of Capelli and Gugelmin somehow managed to go the whole distance without stopping in Le Castellet when all others needed 1 or more stops.When the others realised it was already too late.
thanks to mechanical glitches both ran into problems and Prost won.So also back then it was not just driver but also a car characteristic determining the life of the tyres .Ferrari was famous for gentle tyre use in those days.

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raymondu999
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:27 pm

marcush. wrote:In the prost days there was no regulatory tyre stop .And for example Neweys Leytonhouse in the hands of Capelli and Gugelmin somehow managed to go the whole distance without stopping in Le Castellet when all others needed 1 or more stops.When the others realised it was already too late.
thanks to mechanical glitches both ran into problems and Prost won.So also back then it was not just driver but also a car characteristic determining the life of the tyres .Ferrari was famous for gentle tyre use in those days.
Exactly. I was thinking that they would have to be on different compounds, and cars that treat tyres differently too. I don't think that driver alone and driver technique can make enough of a difference to allow an extra stop etc. Not to mention the pace difference required to allow additional stops
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volarchico
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Re: Testing-Barcelona-Circuit de Catalunya- 8th - 12th March

Post Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:25 am

I think this may have been mentioned previously, but graphing those 3 race simulations shows approx 0.3 sec lost every lap due to the tires wear even with the fuel-weight going down. Also, the Ferrari showed a greater benefit from making an extra stop as far as having fresh tires and low fuel = fast laps.