Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
FW17
214
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by FW17 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:51 am

All the protectionism of european and american car companies in protecting their ICE over the last decade was for nothing.

China has now adequate battery and electric technology to satisfy their own market and threaten the legacy manufacturers

loner
31
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by loner » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:09 am

Brake Horse Power wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:08 pm
What do you see as a hybrid cell? :)

I like the China fuel cell news, if they have a plan they just go big! Funny enough here in West Europe there is so much knowledge but every step is so painfully slow. Better team up with the Chinese in order to do some serious business soon..
Knock-knock-knockin' on CHINA's door .. where you've been?!!
they already there.
a million+ EV in 2018 , gigantic infrastructures inside and outside (Belt and Road Initiative), the most advanced 5G tech in the world Huawei , booming spending on R&D rises to historic high.
i don't like to kiss asses but china is realy revving to the moon...
para bellum.

loner
31
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by loner » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:40 am

Big Tea wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:51 pm
Interesting link, thanks.
But... A million in 10 years? and in a specific press?
That is probably less than are currently using recycled chip oil already.

It would be good if there was a viable alternative, even if just to help keep the cost down but I think there are (or were) half a million LPG cars on UK roads so don't really see the savings. (except processing)

I wonder if it may ever become possible to have a hybrid cell and battery?
well its kinda still complicated any thing related to hydrogen for humans to deal with, its not really hydrogen problem that we can't yet exploit its unimaginable benefits.. hopefully a breakthrough will happen soon.
and you have to forgive me since iam not a technical guy but this pic isn't a hybrid fuel cell and battery ?!!
Image
taking from a Hyundai NEXO vid.
para bellum.

Big Tea
59
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Big Tea » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:15 pm

loner wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:40 am
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:51 pm
Interesting link, thanks.
But... A million in 10 years? and in a specific press?
That is probably less than are currently using recycled chip oil already.

It would be good if there was a viable alternative, even if just to help keep the cost down but I think there are (or were) half a million LPG cars on UK roads so don't really see the savings. (except processing)

I wonder if it may ever become possible to have a hybrid cell and battery?
well its kinda still complicated any thing related to hydrogen for humans to deal with, its not really hydrogen problem that we can't yet exploit its unimaginable benefits.. hopefully a breakthrough will happen soon.
and you have to forgive me since iam not a technical guy but this pic isn't a hybrid fuel cell and battery ?!!
https://i.imgur.com/YUmCOB6.jpg
taking from a Hyundai NEXO vid.
First, just for my interest, do you have one? it looks like a pic taken of your display?

How long does refueling take with a call? Is it 'just' a matter of filling up, or is there time needed for reactions to start? I have not really looked at Hydrogen cell cars, I need to catch up as I seem to have dismissed them prematurely.

It is the most common 'stuff' in the universe, I need to look into capturing it. Thaks
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

loner
31
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by loner » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:04 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:15 pm
First, just for my interest, do you have one? it looks like a pic taken of your display?

How long does refueling take with a call? Is it 'just' a matter of filling up, or is there time needed for reactions to start? I have not really looked at Hydrogen cell cars, I need to catch up as I seem to have dismissed them prematurely.

It is the most common 'stuff' in the universe, I need to look into capturing it. Thaks
nope
check this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euUiIjXA-zc
para bellum.

Brake Horse Power
6
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Brake Horse Power » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:47 pm

Every fuel cell vehicle needs a small battery because it can't ramp up and down immediately. Also a battery allows for higher peak power.

In case of the Toyota Mirai and Hyundai Nexo you can't really call it a hybrid tough, the fuel cell generates up to 100kW the battery is only a couple of kWh, guess it was around 2kWh.

That's what's brilliant of fuel cell cars, it is a lot lighter and much less raw material is needed. Also pollution by production is therefor a lot less

Big Tea
59
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Big Tea » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:52 pm

loner wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:04 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:15 pm
First, just for my interest, do you have one? it looks like a pic taken of your display?

How long does refueling take with a call? Is it 'just' a matter of filling up, or is there time needed for reactions to start? I have not really looked at Hydrogen cell cars, I need to catch up as I seem to have dismissed them prematurely.

It is the most common 'stuff' in the universe, I need to look into capturing it. Thaks
nope
check this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euUiIjXA-zc
Thanks, good vid. As the guy said though, Its not on my list either. :D
It will probably turn out to be one of those 'could have been's that was not developed in time
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

loner
31
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by loner » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:38 pm

Brake Horse Power wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:47 pm
Every fuel cell vehicle needs a small battery because it can't ramp up and down immediately. Also a battery allows for higher peak power.

In case of the Toyota Mirai and Hyundai Nexo you can't really call it a hybrid tough, the fuel cell generates up to 100kW the battery is only a couple of kWh, guess it was around 2kWh.

That's what's brilliant of fuel cell cars, it is a lot lighter and much less raw material is needed. Also pollution by production is therefor a lot less
thnx so is it all the same configuration for all fcv manufactures or is it different look to the clarity.. can we call this motor an electric motor
Image

after all this is just not so advanced tech for my thinking, its way too primitive..there is a long way down the rabbit hole.
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:52 pm
Thanks, good vid. As the guy said though, Its not on my list either. :D
It will probably turn out to be one of those 'could have been's that was not developed in time
you trespass the bankers and oil lords territory and there will be blood.. they are already tax the hell out of EVs. :lol:
if it wasn't for them and their precious green fiction paper we would have a very advanced EVs and hydrogen powered cars since long time.
para bellum.

strad
260
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 am

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by strad » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:31 am

Lotta draw backs. :wink:
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Greg Locock
165
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Greg Locock » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 am

This thread is hilarious. Hydrogen, at the moment, is a lousy energy storage method. Most hydrogen is manufactured by catalysing oil, releasing CO2 into the atmosphere. Then you have to compress it (takes energy), and then figure out how to store it. 20-30 years back a full tank of hydrogen would disappear in 3 days whether you used it or not in the vehicle storage tanks they used then.

That's not to say it has no future. Storage has improved, and fuel cells have got cheaper. CSIRO are working on a solar to hydrogen tech (just add water). IF that comes to fruition and it is a reasonable price then that's a complete game changer. But with current tech, it's just a farce, because it is basically oil.

loner
31
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by loner » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:53 pm

Greg Locock wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 am
This thread is hilarious. Hydrogen, at the moment, is a lousy energy storage method. Most hydrogen is manufactured by catalysing oil, releasing CO2 into the atmosphere. Then you have to compress it (takes energy), and then figure out how to store it. 20-30 years back a full tank of hydrogen would disappear in 3 days whether you used it or not in the vehicle storage tanks they used then.

That's not to say it has no future. Storage has improved, and fuel cells have got cheaper. CSIRO are working on a solar to hydrogen tech (just add water). IF that comes to fruition and it is a reasonable price then that's a complete game changer. But with current tech, it's just a farce, because it is basically oil.
now we are talking .. its WATER the source of the ultimate PURE AND MASSIVE power, human body contain of 60% water, you quench seeds in the ground with water and you have plants , water gives life, most grounds on earth are water , GOD created water from extremely 2 flammable atoms but made us turn off fires with water but we can't take notes unfortunately with our idiotism and egotistic greed going the filthy dirty black oily route.
we should fill our cars tank with water not oil.
its good that le mans going partially hydrogen in 2024 even if its shyly, hopefully others will follow and more R&D will happen.
para bellum.

djos
117
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by djos » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:18 pm

Let's leave imaginary friends out of this discussion shall we! #-o
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Big Tea
59
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Big Tea » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:26 pm

https://setis.ec.europa.eu/publications ... n-sunlight

from above

While there are several potential technologies for producing hydrogen using solar energy, only a few are feasible on a large scale. One currently under development is looked into by the FCH-JU co-funded CoMETHy project that uses molten salts to store heat derived from a number of renewable energy sources, including solar energy from concentrating solar plants. This heat is then used to convert a range of possible fuels to produce hydrogen. This is a ‘greener’ variant of a more mature technology that involves reforming methane or natural gas at high temperatures. The gases react with steam in the presence of a catalyst to produce hydrogen, along with carbon monoxide and some carbon dioxide - so they are not completely ‘carbon free’.

One of the most promising technologies to produce hydrogen on a large scale is the so-called hybrid-sulphur cycle (or Westinghouse cycle). In this process, both thermochemical and electrochemical cycles are used to split water by the reduction and oxydation (‘redox’) of sulphur compounds, often recycled from metallurgical industries. The net result is hydrogen and sulphuric acid, which is also marketable.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Brake Horse Power
6
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Brake Horse Power » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:16 pm

Greg Locock wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 am
This thread is hilarious. Hydrogen, at the moment, is a lousy energy storage method. Most hydrogen is manufactured by catalysing oil, releasing CO2 into the atmosphere. Then you have to compress it (takes energy), and then figure out how to store it. 20-30 years back a full tank of hydrogen would disappear in 3 days whether you used it or not in the vehicle storage tanks they used then.

That's not to say it has no future. Storage has improved, and fuel cells have got cheaper. CSIRO are working on a solar to hydrogen tech (just add water). IF that comes to fruition and it is a reasonable price then that's a complete game changer. But with current tech, it's just a farce, because it is basically oil.
Current tech is ready to make green hydrogen using Elektrolysis, so no problem there? Just build the plants (as Nikola is currently doing in US).
For the storage the standard is type 4 pressure vessels. You are mentioning 20-30 year Old cryogenic technique, and thicken the numbers as well. Doesn't add much if you ask me

Brake Horse Power
6
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

Post by Brake Horse Power » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:24 pm

Here a picture of a hilarious truck with lousy storage method.

500-750mile range, 1000 HP, 10-15minute refill, ready for autonomous drive.. O did I mention it will be cheaper to run than a diesel?

It is such a lousy truck that they only have 12 billion US dollar on pre-orders 😉

Image