Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Lots of stuff is subsidised because it brings value to society. Moving away from fossil fuelled energy sources is a value to society - even if AGW is not real, improvements in general air quality is very real and has a big impact on health. Spending that improves air quality will result in reduced spending requirements on health problems. Subsidies can actually result in a net gain in some cases.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Greg Locock wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:00 am

djos My 5.4kW system in Melbourne (much worse weather than Adelaide) still averages 10.2 kWh's p/d over the worst winter month (July). In the Summer (Jan) it averages 32.9 kWh's p/d.

Wow, that's a big step up from my 5 kW system. Ah hang on, those were the modelled numbers I gave you for the design, last year I averaged 18% better than that at 7032.5 kWh for the year. So my 7 kWh/d is equivalent to 7*1.18*5.4/5, 9 kWh/day.
I had it built with high quality components (LG 300w panels and a Fronius inverter) as I learned my lesson with my previous house in SA which had a “cheap“ System. It’s also on a 2 storey house with no shading and has a NE/NW split.

Here is my system on PVO:

https://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=4 ... 34&v=1&t=m
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Btw the new 2000 megawatts wind farm that is going to be built off shore in Victoria is entirely commercially viable and not getting any government funding.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/arti ... tep-closer
Offshore winds tend to blow harder and more uniformly than on land. Since higher wind speeds can produce significantly more energy/electricity, developers are increasingly interested in pursuing offshore wind energy resources
https://www.boem.gov/renewable-energy/r ... m-overview
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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even if AGW is not real, improvements in general air quality is very real and has a big impact on health.
Finally...A viable argument. 👍
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:26 pm
even if AGW is not real, improvements in general air quality is very real and has a big impact on health.
Finally...A viable argument. 👍
One way of getting people to change is by pointing out the personal benefits to them. The problem with AGW for many is that, even if it's accepted as real, it's seen as affecting other people in far away places - sea level changes swamping Pacific islands etc. That makes it easy to dismiss making changes. If those changes make their own lives better, however, they will more likely accept the need to change.

Air quality in urban areas is a problem the world over. Most people live in urban areas, ergo getting them to change will improve their own lives. If it helps other issues as well, then that's a bonus. 8)
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I’m in the USA for work ATM but thanks to AGW amplifying our Bush Fire season, the air quality back home is horrendous!

I live in the Yarra ranges foothills and on most days we haven’t been able to the end of our street, let alone the Yarra ranges!

Here’s a couple of pics I took before I left, you should be able to see hills or mountains in these pics but they are MIA due to the smoke.
https://imgur.com/gallery/HKlcPiA
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I remember the smoggy atmosphere in and around Hong Kong when we did a stopover there en route to New Zealand 10 years ago. It was typical conditions even then and I understand it is no better or is even worse now. Arriving in NZ and walking around we were struck by the clarity of the air. Sadly, NZ is suffering from some of the "fallout" from the Oz fires - Auckland has had some very poor air conditions recently according to folks we know down there.

Your first picture with the sun through very hazy horizon is not untypical for UK sunsets, sadly. We do get some poor air conditions at times, mostly caused by temperature inversions. Again, coming home from NZ really threw this in to sharp focus (if you'll pardon the pun).
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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The last photo is a sunrise, it’s basically like that both ends of the day.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Ah, I was confused because it's facing the wrong way... :lol:

(sorry, poor joke about things "down under" being upside down :oops: )
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Tim.Wright
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 pm
Greg Locock wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:00 am

djos My 5.4kW system in Melbourne (much worse weather than Adelaide) still averages 10.2 kWh's p/d over the worst winter month (July). In the Summer (Jan) it averages 32.9 kWh's p/d.

Wow, that's a big step up from my 5 kW system. Ah hang on, those were the modelled numbers I gave you for the design, last year I averaged 18% better than that at 7032.5 kWh for the year. So my 7 kWh/d is equivalent to 7*1.18*5.4/5, 9 kWh/day.
I had it built with high quality components (LG 300w panels and a Fronius inverter) as I learned my lesson with my previous house in SA which had a “cheap“ System. It’s also on a 2 storey house with no shading and has a NE/NW split.

Here is my system on PVO:

https://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=4 ... 34&v=1&t=m
Out of interest, what did the complete system cost?
Not the engineer at Force India

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:02 pm
Ah, I was confused because it's facing the wrong way... :lol:

(sorry, poor joke about things "down under" being upside down :oops: )
:D all good, we don’t mind the jokes and frequently perpetuate them ourselves.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Tim.Wright wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:36 pm

Out of interest, what did the complete system cost?
We have some great federal and state incentives, so the total cost to me after those was $5,300 AUD including my own Fronius smart meter for energy monitoring. Before incentives I think it was ~$12k AUD.

You can get a much cheaper system, but the quality of the panels and inverter’s is suspect to say the least.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Tim.Wright
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Seems reasonable. So you break even point would be about 3-4 years after installation then?
Not the engineer at Force India

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Tim.Wright wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:52 pm
Seems reasonable. So you break even point would be about 3-4 years after installation then?
We are tracking to 3.5 years, it has literally halved our annual power bill.

Once the system has paid for itself, we’ll add storage so we can time shift instead of exporting power for a pittance.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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that's nice if expensive, but where I live there is not enough sun to charge my solar powered security light. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss