Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 pm
I don't see that the PHEV is any more complicated than a BEV - both have motors and regen systems and batteries. Any argument against a PHEV and possible battery pack issues applies just as much to a BEV, of course. So that argument against the PHEV isn't really vary fair.
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion? PHEV's have 2 entire power systems, one of which is an ICE with hundreds of moving parts, wear items, and a gearbox to mash it all together. The EV side is likely to be the most reliable power system in a PHEV.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Greg Locock
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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That was one of the better arguments about the GM Volt - it is carrying two powertrains in effect, so it is inherently inefficient just from a mass point of view. It's a shame it died, it was one of the few EVs that was a viable option for me.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Greg Locock wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:57 pm
That was one of the better arguments about the GM Volt - it is carrying two powertrains in effect, so it is inherently inefficient just from a mass point of view. It's a shame it died, it was one of the few EVs that was a viable option for me.
The Hyundai Ioniq PHEV is a much more affordable* vehicle and a similar size.

*in Australia by about $15k AUD
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Greg Locock
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Since I now live off grid a PHEV is no longer an option!

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Greg Locock wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:07 am
Since I now live off grid a PHEV is no longer an option!
You just need a bigger solar array. :mrgreen:
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Brake Horse Power wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:24 pm
Here is a more scientific approach...

https://pushevs.com/2018/04/05/samsung- ... ung%20SDI.
Second paragraph:
Later this year, the BMW i3 will get its battery upgraded with NCM 622 cells
So as I said, that is not the batteries used in EVs, but the ones wich will be used in a near future wich is different.

But I´m glad to see they actually improved cycle life so they can now use more of it capacity :)

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:36 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 pm
I don't see that the PHEV is any more complicated than a BEV - both have motors and regen systems and batteries. Any argument against a PHEV and possible battery pack issues applies just as much to a BEV, of course. So that argument against the PHEV isn't really vary fair.
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion? PHEV's have 2 entire power systems, one of which is an ICE with hundreds of moving parts, wear items, and a gearbox to mash it all together. The EV side is likely to be the most reliable power system in a PHEV.
You said that you wouldn't want a PHEV partly because of the batteries.
PHEV's are far too complicated for my liking and I'd hate to own one outside of warranty when something breaks or the battery pack dies.
The same argument about batteries applies to BEV, of course, but with the issue that you can't do anything with it if the battery system has a problem. You could, in principle, drive a PHEV on ICE alone (I'd like to see a "get home" mode for just this situation but I don't suppose the manufacturers have thought of it).

The point about PHEVs is that they bridge the gap between the ICE ecosystem and the BEV ecosystem. It allows the infrastructure to be built up to support future wholesale use of BEV. It gets people used to running an EV, charging at home to allow for EV-only short local journeys but still having the fallback of the hybrid system for longer journeys.

As the chap in the video I posted said, they had a pure EV for nearly a year and found that they ended up just using it for short local stuff because they couldn't be sure that they could charge it if they went outside of "home radius". So then they used traditional ICE vehicles for the longer stuff. The PHEV was avoiding that issue (because you just need a traditional fuel filling station) and still doing over half of the miles driven in EV mode because they charge it overnight.

I also agree with him that the subsidy on BEVs is misguided. They're generally bought by wealthier people anyway (they're generally expensive things) and they often have tax breaks that make them even more attractive to those with accountants. PHEVs would make a much bigger impact on emissions, not just CO2 but also NOx etc., in urban environments. Better to encourage people to move that way and then support the infrastructure to charge them (much smaller charge required, don't forget, so less infrastructure changes required in the short term).

In the UK, the Tory Government reduced/removed the encouragements to the wholesale move towards renewable generation. Every house should be generating power (PV) and storing it locally for use (battery store), for example, which could be done at reasonable cost (economies of scale apply here). This could allow for self-charging a PHEV, for example, or even just running the house in the evening on "stored volts".

I wouldn't drive a BEV in the UK at the moment. I'm thinking about a PHEV, however, because it will work well here.
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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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https://revolution-green.com/grabat-ene ... akthrough/

3x energy density, 33x charging speed, and 77% cheaper

Only a half of these claims would be a game changer :shock:

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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That's a monumental "if" there. Let's see some real product from them first.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

TNTHead
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:45 am
Brake Horse Power wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:24 pm
Here is a more scientific approach...

https://pushevs.com/2018/04/05/samsung- ... ung%20SDI.
Second paragraph:
Later this year, the BMW i3 will get its battery upgraded with NCM 622 cells
So as I said, that is not the batteries used in EVs, but the ones wich will be used in a near future wich is different.

But I´m glad to see they actually improved cycle life so they can now use more of it capacity :)
I have a BMW i3 with NMC622 battery for almost a year now. I can say that with a good charging network, the car is useful for more than just commuting. With destination charging you can get 500 km on a day out of it.

With a rated 4500 cycles to 80% degradation and a average range of 220 km per charge you could get more than 900.000 km before battery swap is needed. So for BEV the battery (at least for the i3) is not a drawback anymore.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I did look at whether the BMW i3 would work for me. BMW say it has a range of about 175 miles (just under 300km). Some days that would work for me. Other days, I'd be having to stop for a recharge somewhere. On the days I'm doing 100-150miles, the i3 would be ideal. On the days I'm doing nearer 200miles, I'd have to add some recharge time, assuming I could find somewhere to recharge.

But that's me and my particular circumstances. If I knew I was never going to do more than 150 miles a day as a round trip, then I'd be happy to run one.

The alternative is to run something else for the longer trips and use the i3 for the shorter days.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:18 pm
That's a monumental "if" there. Let's see some real product from them first.
Sure, as any other claim from any other developer, they all are always very optimistic about the characteristics/perfomances of their products

Here a real product, still under development obviously but safety will not be an issue, period :mrgreen:

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I'd love a new Hummer EV but the cost is just plain crazy.
The only place the Tesla truck beats the Hummer is price and in having lockable storage in the "vault" and a nicer interior and it's also crazy expensive but not quite as bad.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Not hummer size but...


Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I'm surprised, with the Rivian, that they get so much wheel spin when rock crawling. With electric motors at each corner it ought to be possible to just get drive with almost no wheel spin in such situations. I can see why they've got it spinning the wheels in the slow-mo get away from stationery - looks great and dramatic - but, again, with decent control of the electric motors it should be able to pull away with little/no spin.

The Rivian's specs are really good. Ground clearance and wading depth are amazing, especially.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"