Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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What´s the problem with wheelspin when rock crawling? With traditional cars with ICE and differentials it´s a problem, but with EVs with one motor per wheel it´s not. I´d say it´s even the opposite, with some wheelspin the wheel will provide some traction as soon as it makes contact again, even if it´s just for an instant. Without wheelspin first contact will not provide traction so keeping some controlled wheelspin makes sense to provide traction as soon as possible and pass the obstacle

This is just my guess tough

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:24 pm
What´s the problem with wheelspin when rock crawling? With traditional cars with ICE and differentials it´s a problem, but with EVs with one motor per wheel it´s not. I´d say it´s even the opposite, with some wheelspin the wheel will provide some traction as soon as it makes contact again, even if it´s just for an instant. Without wheelspin first contact will not provide traction so keeping some controlled wheelspin makes sense to provide traction as soon as possible and pass the obstacle

This is just my guess tough
I do not know about this, so probably should not chip in, but I always do.
Would the spinning not reduce the viscosity of anything on the rock, losing traction?
I know it is not like melting snow with the spin, but most things thin when you stir and heat them?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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btw, for a start from stationary wheelspin is bad only for tarmac and slicks,but with off-road tires with huge grooves similar to mx tires (not sure what´s the term in english for "tacos") that´s not true anymore, wheelspin increases traction. Look at any mx start, anyone using the tarmac technique of avoiding wheelspin will surely be the last in first corner

Not sure what´s the point where wheelspin start to be worth, I guess it must be when the groove is so big that next piece of rubber will dig into the ground increasing traction

Hope it makes any sense, I´m not sure how to explain this in english :oops:

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:31 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:24 pm
What´s the problem with wheelspin when rock crawling? With traditional cars with ICE and differentials it´s a problem, but with EVs with one motor per wheel it´s not. I´d say it´s even the opposite, with some wheelspin the wheel will provide some traction as soon as it makes contact again, even if it´s just for an instant. Without wheelspin first contact will not provide traction so keeping some controlled wheelspin makes sense to provide traction as soon as possible and pass the obstacle

This is just my guess tough
I do not know about this, so probably should not chip in, but I always do.
Same here :mrgreen:

Big Tea wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:31 pm
Would the spinning not reduce the viscosity of anything on the rock, losing traction?
I know it is not like melting snow with the spin, but most things thin when you stir and heat them?
Probably you´re right, but I don´t think it takes so long to change the physical properties of the rock or even heat it up significantly, so it must be more important to get any traction as soon as there´s a contact

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:40 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:31 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:24 pm
What´s the problem with wheelspin when rock crawling? With traditional cars with ICE and differentials it´s a problem, but with EVs with one motor per wheel it´s not. I´d say it´s even the opposite, with some wheelspin the wheel will provide some traction as soon as it makes contact again, even if it´s just for an instant. Without wheelspin first contact will not provide traction so keeping some controlled wheelspin makes sense to provide traction as soon as possible and pass the obstacle

This is just my guess tough
I do not know about this, so probably should not chip in, but I always do.
Same here :mrgreen:

Big Tea wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:31 pm
Would the spinning not reduce the viscosity of anything on the rock, losing traction?
I know it is not like melting snow with the spin, but most things thin when you stir and heat them?
Probably you´re right, but I don´t think it takes so long to change the physical properties of the rock or even heat it up significantly, so it must be more important to get any traction as soon as there´s a contact
I was thinking of the rubber or any 'slime' on the rock
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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The Rivian doesn't come close. I thought it looked great when I first saw it but it costs close or as much.
The Hummer has an approach angle of 44° the Tesla 35°. Departure angle of 33° for the Hummer and 28° for the Tesla. The Rivian has 34.8° and 28° approach and departure angles.
The Hummer has an even steeper approach and departure angle in what they call extraction mode. ie when the going gets really tough.
Ground clearance? For the Hummer with it's 13 inches of suspension travel has 11.9 inches of ground clearance and you can raise it to 16 inches. The Tesla has 16 and the Rivian 14.5.
The Hummer will ford 28 to 32 inches of water. Tesla claims to be shooting for 30 inches but since it floats easier ya better be careful fording a stream as ya might get washed away.
The Hummer has a plethora of cameras with even 2 underneath so you can see if you can clear obstacles. Very handy in rough country.
The Tesla wins in the interior appointments and on the cost per mile. Actually close to half. If I can make sense of these numbers the Hummer can charge more quickly...300Kw vs 250Kw.
It would appear that the Hummer with it's 4 wheel steering (very handy off road and when maneuvering in tight areas) is aimed more at the off road crowd .
The Hummer does not have the lockable "vault and only a 5 ft. bed as opposed to 6.5 ft. for the Cyber Truck.
Apparently the Cyber Truck has the better self drive on road software.
If you have the money and actually intend to take it off road the Hummer is by far the better of the two.
BTW the range for the Hummer is 350 miles as opposed to 250 to 500 for the Tesla depending on the model and cost.
Neither has motors at each wheel. The Tesla Cyber truck will have 3 different model trims available for the truck: Single Motor RWD, Dual Motor AWD and Tri-Motor AWD.
The GMC Hummer EV beats all the specs of the Single Motor RWD, Dual Motor AWD and is better compared to the Tri-Motor AWD.
As for wheel spin off road. There are times you want it but most often you want, in ICE terms, gobs of low end torque, and to crawl over and around obstacles without spinning your tires.
Real off road isn't like the Baja race. It's a slow speed thing unless you need to get a run on some hill or that sort of thing.
Last edited by strad on Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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That new Hummer is an absolute beast, I'm not an off-road guy but, it's still auto-pr0n for me!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:54 pm
The Rivian doesn't come close. I thought it looked great when I first saw it but it costs close or as much.
The Hummer has an approach angle of 44° the Tesla 35°. Departure angle of 33° for the Hummer and 28° for the Tesla. The Rivian has 34.8° and 28° approach and departure angles.
The Hummer has an even steeper approach and departure angle in what they call extraction mode. ie when the going gets really tough.
Ground clearance? For the Hummer with it's 13 inches of suspension travel has 11.9 inches of ground clearance and you can raise it to 16 inches. The Tesla has 16 and the Rivian 14.5.
The Hummer will ford 28 to 32 inches of water. Tesla claims to be shooting for 30 inches but since it floats easier ya better be careful fording a stream as ya might get washed away.
The Hummer has a plethora of cameras with even 2 underneath so you can see if you can clear obstacles. Very handy in rough country.
The Tesla wins in the interior appointments and on the cost per mile. Actually close to half. If I can make sense of these numbers the Hummer can charge more quickly...300Kw vs 250Kw.
It would appear that the Hummer with it's 4 wheel steering (very handy off road and when maneuvering in tight areas) is aimed more at the off road crowd .
The Hummer does not have the lockable "vault and only a 5 ft. bed as opposed to 6.5 ft. for the Cyber Truck.
Apparently the Cyber Truck has the better self drive on road software.
If you have the money and actually intend to take it off road the Hummer is by far the better of the two.
BTW the range for the Hummer is 350 miles as opposed to 250 to 500 for the Tesla depending on the model and cost.
Neither has motors at each wheel. The Tesla Cyber truck will have 3 different model trims available for the truck: Single Motor RWD, Dual Motor AWD and Tri-Motor AWD.
The GMC Hummer EV beats all the specs of the Single Motor RWD, Dual Motor AWD and is better compared to the Tri-Motor AWD.
As for wheel spin off road. There are times you want it but most often you want, in ICE terms, gobs of low end torque, and to crawl over and around obstacles without spinning your tires.
Real of road isn't like the Baja race. It's a slow speed thing unless you need to get a run on some hill or that sort of thing.
For some reason I was assuming the Hummer EV was a desire of yours, not a real car

An impressive beast!

Brake Horse Power
Brake Horse Power
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:41 pm
That new Hummer is an absolute beast, I'm not an off-road guy but, it's still auto-pr0n for me!
Don't know if is has a lot to do with sustainability but I agree 😁

Strad, in my humble opinion.. buy it 😉😁

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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@Brake Horse Power: Can I get a loan. At north of 100 thou that out of my budget. :lol:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:44 pm
@Brake Horse Power: Can I get a loan. At north of 100 thou that out of my budget. :lol:
I have a mate in Texas who owns a H2 that he had stretched to add an extra row of seats for his kids mates - I wonder if he's planning to upgrade. :mrgreen:
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Brake Horse Power
Brake Horse Power
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:44 pm
@Brake Horse Power: Can I get a loan. At north of 100 thou that out of my budget. :lol:
Sorry I've spent it all om my i3 :lol: , which in your case might also be within budget. Ground clearance isn't great tough :wink:

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strad
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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If we want them viable we have to change our pattern.
So.. You are saying we should change our lives to make them viable? I don't think so. They have to make their product fit our lives and life style.
.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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strad wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:05 pm
If we want them viable we have to change our pattern.
So.. You are saying we should change our lives to make them viable? I don't think so. They have to make their product fit our lives and life style.
.
With insight and development comes change.

As you see now in Europe, with our (compared to the US) good public transport and (also compared to the US) expensive and busy road network, for younger generations cars aren’t the logical solution anymore. I have two boys, 22 and 19 years of age. They don’t have or want a drivers license because... why drive? It’s expensive, doesn’t have a real advantage and above all, when you drive, you’re off line.
They spend their money on a set of good headphones, an iPhone, 4G (coverage here is very good) and a YouTube premium account.
Oh... and of course, the biggest downside of driving: no drinking 😂

Ferry
Ferry
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Things are changing fast! xEV rising, diesels down.
https://insideevs.com/news/451519/europ ... n-diesels/