Make engines compete with motors

[roon]

The electric cars on the market do not require oil changes, nor any major maintenance for the effective life of the vehicle. So you need to make an ICE that doesn't need an oil change nor maintenance to fluids generally, nor need to be opened or disassembled at all, for 100k miles.

[Jolle]

If people buying Teslas over BMW's because of the extent of it's yearly service, yes... but the engine is only a small part of a service of a modern car, and apart from the ICE an electric car is still a car with tires, brakes, joints, airco, (interior) filters that all need a bit of maintenance every so often.

That two hours a year extra doesn't really compare to the extra costs and wear for a 100.000 km inspection instead of an 20.000km one. On modern engines it is more or less a fluid change and a computer read out, not as exciting as the old days.

[Just_a_fan]

To be fair, it isn't the engine that needs the fluids changing, it's the fluids that need to be changed. Design an oil that can last for 100k miles in a road car and you can have your "service free" engine.

Modern engines can easily do more than 100k miles with minimal servicing already. Just changing the oil and its filter is often all that needs to be done.

As Jolle says, all car ICE or EV, need to have other items serviced/replaced even if the engine was left alone.

[Greg Locock]

Dry sump it and fit a large oil reservoir, bigger filter, maybe some simple treatment of the oil to extend its life.

Wasn't very hard was it?

[DiogoBrand]

The electric cars on the market do not require oil changes, nor any major maintenance for the effective life of the vehicle. So you need to make an ICE that doesn't need an oil change nor maintenance to fluids generally, nor need to be opened or disassembled at all, for 100k miles.

Why? If I were to buy an electric vehicle, it definitely wouldn't be because I don't need to change the oil. I think that's the least of the ICE's problems.

Dry sump it and fit a large oil reservoir, bigger filter, maybe some simple treatment of the oil to extend its life.

Wasn't very hard was it?

I'm not sure you should say "wasn't very hard, was it?" before you have any evidence that it would actually work.
What about water condensation? What about the oil being lost in the form of vapor to the PCV system?

[NL_Fer]

2 stroke mixfuel motor

[Greg Locock]

"maybe some simple treatment of the oil to extend its life" such as removing water perhaps.

[Tommy Cookers]

otoh ...
filtration isn't an issue - cars have only bypass filtration anyway
ICEs tend to acidify their oil from carbonic acid that comes from the combining of combustion products CO2 and H2O
oil has (chemically base) additives giving some capacity to cancel acidification
when this capacity has been fully used (as shown by depletion of 'base number') the oil should be replaced
our ICE fuel has always been refined to remove sulphur - otherwise this would give severe acidification
Marine ICEs now run on unrefined fuel have in-use treatment of their lubricating oil to maintain base number

my pet peeve is ATF or TQF
a crucially important additive is the one that keeps the seals 'swelling' in use
if this additive expires after several years the car might be scrap
replacement 'seal swell' additive was common in the USA - but generally unknown in the UK because we like to make problems
but now BMW claims to have sealed transmissions with apparently everlasting fluid

[roon]

otoh ...
filtration isn't an issue - cars have only bypass filtration anyway

If I understand correctly, the bypass is pressure regulated to prevent oil flow restriction. At low engine speeds: full flow through the filter?

[Just_a_fan]

but now BMW claims to have sealed transmissions with apparently everlasting fluid

Land Rover use the same ZF gearbox as BMW (with some minor changes) and also claim "life time servicing" with gearbox oil to be changed at 150,000 miles! Suffice to say that the gearbox really doesn't like that. ZF advise oil changes at around 50-70,000 miles which is what most "enthusiats" follow.

There is a noticeable difference in gearbox smoothness after the oil change, that's for sure.

[Andres125sx]

If people buying Teslas over BMW's because of the extent of it's yearly service, yes... but the engine is only a small part of a service of a modern car, and apart from the ICE an electric car is still a car with tires, brakes, joints, airco, (interior) filters that all need a bit of maintenance every so often.

That two hours a year extra doesn't really compare to the extra costs and wear for a 100.000 km inspection instead of an 20.000km one. On modern engines it is more or less a fluid change and a computer read out, not as exciting as the old days.

What servicing do wheels, brakes, etc do need?

Servicing is strictly related with ICE limitations. Actually the only servicing I´ve done to all my cars is oil change, oil filter change, fuel filter change, air filter change, and (not sure if this is the name in english) valve operating belt. The rest is substituding parts wich reach the end of their lifespan, no matter if a wheel or a damper, but servicing is only related with ICEs.

The day I have an electric car, I will erase servicing requirements from my mental checklist, when wear is excessive I´ll change that part and that´s all, no need to go to any garaje if the car is working. ICEs can´t say this, they need servicing to ensure it will keep working in the future too.


BTW, there´s an aspect with EVs wich lately I think a lot about. My daily trip to the job is only around 12 km, in the morning it is barely enough to get the ICE warm up, and when I´m late in the morning it drive me nuts the necessity to be gentle with the throttle until the engine warm up. EVs do not have that problem, you can get into it even in winter when everything is frozen, and accelerate as hard as you want from first meter. Maybe the battery will not deliver all its power until it get into temp, but nothing will suffer any wear or damage from this attitude. I can´t wait for this sincerely

[NL_Fer]

EV will need soms brake cleaning, because the regen-braking tend to extend the life of brake pads 2-3 times.