McLaren F1 successor

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Just_a_fan
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McLaren F1 successor

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Gordan Murray is going to launch his F1 successor. This is going to be done by his company, not McLaren.

641bhp 3.9 litre V12, 12,000 rpm, manual gearbox, fan-driven underbody downforce, shorter than a 911, 980kg target weight.
Legendary designer Gordon Murray, who created the trailblazing McLaren F1, has unveiled an all-new £2.5 million three-seat ultra-lightweight hypercar that, he believes, will beat all rivals – including the Aston Martin Valkyrie and Mercedes-AMG One – for “purity, sense of purpose and ground-breaking technology” when it appears in 2022.

The car will be made in a batch of 100 units over one year by Murray’s own manufacturing company, Gordon Murray Automotive (GMA). It will feature revolutionary ‘fan car’ technology to generate aerodynamic downforce and improve cornering grip. The system is similar to one pioneered by Murray in the controversial 1978 Brabham BT46B Formula 1 car, which won its only grand prix before being withdrawn from competition.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... essor-2022

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Called the T.50 in recognition of the British designer’s half century of building own-design cars, the new hypercar is an all-carbonfibre, mid-engined, rear-wheel-drive design. It is slightly longer than his 1993 F1 but still smaller than a Porsche 911, at just under 4.4m long.

The T.50 is also remarkably light, at 980kg. That undercuts the then-featherweight BMW V12-engined F1 by a cool 120kg and beats today’s supercar crop by 400kg to 600kg.

The T.50 is powered by a compact and lightweight 641bhp 3.9-litre normally aspirated V12 engine, created by GMA in co-operation with Cosworth. The transmission is a classic six-speed stick-shift manual gearbox built by Xtrac. Although the T.50 uses a 48V electrical system to power the 400mm-diameter fan that creates most of its downforce, the car will not use hybrid tech because Murray feels it’s too heavy and complex. He noted that the T.50 draws efficiency from a lightweight design.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

santos
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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I think this would be awesome in 1996... I don't doubt that it will be a great machine, but the concept seems dated. Without turbos or electric engines, i wonder how much torque will it make bellow 3000rpm.

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Thank God... No electric nonsense...

wesley123
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Yay for nostalgia! /s
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Phil
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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As stunning as that looks, I have to agree, the concept seems quite outdated. And I really don't mean this in a bad way - the purist in me loves the fact that a car of this magnitude might still be built with a manual gearbox and a simple NA engine. But will it be worth it? I doubt it will stand a chance (performance wise) against the technology driven modern supercars of today.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Just_a_fan
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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It'll be a pure sports car with no pretences to saving the planet - no trendy hybrid stuff that, in reality, is a marketing sop to keep the eco-mob off the manufacturers' backs a while longer. The reality is that the hybrid stuff in the usual culprits adds a huge amount of mass that has to be moved around. McLaren's P1, Ferrari's LaFerrari etc are all technological masterpieces but they're heavy - about 600kg heavier. 600kg! That's mass that has to be accelerated, braked and turned.

Murray's car will be lightweight - it'll be about 60kg heavier than a Lotus Elise and have three times the power, coupled to fan augmented downforce. It'll be massively quick along a twisting bit of tarmac. I'm genuinely excited about it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Andres125sx
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Manual gearbox might look outdated, agree, but a fan car?... =P~ =D> =D>

The modern technology of other hyper cars will probably be good enough to compensate the extra weight (hopefully for them), but this T50 will be in a different league cornering wise. Just because of the much lighter weight it will be faster in the corners, now add a fan and things start to look really interenting


Eager to see it finished and running!

Zynerji
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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I think I'll still elect to pick up the Corvette C8 instead... It's an unbelievable amount of car for under $60k.

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Tim.Wright
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Finally a real driver's car.

In the Autocar article it's claiming no stability control which I don't think is legal anymore though. Weight seems a bit on the optimistic side too for a car that size.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:22 pm
I think I'll still elect to pick up the Corvette C8 instead... It's an unbelievable amount of car for under $60k.
Entirely different proposition. The Corvette is aimed at USians that think live rear axles are kinda modern. Metal chassis? Really?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Tim.Wright wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:22 pm
Finally a real driver's car.

In the Autocar article it's claiming no stability control which I don't think is legal anymore though. Weight seems a bit on the optimistic side too for a car that size.
Exactly, a driver's car. I remember reviews of the the original F1 saying things such as it would take a lifetime to really learn the car and its foilbles and thus get the best from it. The modern stuff can be driven by a spotty 20 year old in half an hour.

I think the weight is "challenging". The F1 was heavier than intended but wasn't a modern carbon chassis and bodywork. The chassis was chunky compared to modern chassis designs. I could see Murray removing several tens of kg from the chassis alone compared to the original. Weight is added to modenr cars in the form of various tech systems - h fi, sat nav, air con etc. Design bespoke systems for those and you can cut weight. Remove those systems and you remove all oftheir weight.

As for stability control, I wonder if they mean traction control. ESC has been a requirement in the EU and US for many years now.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:33 am
Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:22 pm
I think I'll still elect to pick up the Corvette C8 instead... It's an unbelievable amount of car for under $60k.
Entirely different proposition. The Corvette is aimed at USians that think live rear axles are kinda modern. Metal chassis? Really?


I'll take a $60k base model, metal chassis with 60 years of refinement, and several billion in R&D from a manufacturer with thousands of dealerships and has a "daily driver" setting and excellent gas mileage over a Niche, 100/year prototype with far less peace of mind concerning reliability.

If you want a garage/trailer queen, get the T.50 for (price?).

If you want a trackable daily driver with 700+HP and 30mpg, grab the ZR1 for under $85k.

Pretty car that Gordon's making. I believe it will only end up as a gimmick that will rarely even be on a road. I hope Mr. Murray did far more engineering to the parts of the car that contribute to the cost-of-ownership. Jay Leno owns an F1, and has videos of the unbearable maintenance (the gas tank is like $10k, and needs regular replacing...)

PS: You do know that the C8 is the first mid engine Corvette, and had years of R&D already invested, right? And the Zora tier has 1000hp hybrid AWD!

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/everythin ... 85179.html

roon
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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325 cc cylinders!

Phil wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:39 pm
I doubt it will stand a chance (performance wise) against the technology driven modern supercars of today.
None of those will be able to produce downforce at 0 mph/kph.

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: McLaren F1 successor

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roon wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:54 am
325 cc cylinders!

Phil wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:39 pm
I doubt it will stand a chance (performance wise) against the technology driven modern supercars of today.
None of those will be able to produce downforce at 0 mph/kph.
Well, I run twin 240mm fans on my gaming PC. I guess that I don't expect a 400mm fan to really do that much? Maybe 4000cfm?

roon
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Might need side skirts. Chaparral 2J had twin 17"/430mm fans. Murray's drawing seems to show a coaxial twin prop counter rotating fan.

BT46B had something like a 18"/460mm fan.

Modern development might permit a 15.75" fan.