Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
User avatar
etusch
162
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars (1)

Honda Motor Co Ltd is putting its energy into the development of prechamber technologies for auto engines.

Nikkei xTech and Nikkei Automotive found that Honda plans to become ready for volume production within a few years. The company will prepare for Europe's strict environmental regulations by improving thermal efficiency and reducing CO2 emissions.


"We will employ it (prechamber) at the timing of making a new engine," said Ayumu Matsuo, managing executive officer of Honda R&D Co Ltd, who leads the development of power trains at Honda. He also said, "We will establish the technology within a few years," indicating that the company will start volume production in the near future.

In recent years, prechambers are being increasingly employed mainly for racing cars. Automakers are pushing forward with the research and development of prechambers behind the scenes in the aim of applying them to mass-produced cars, considering that they will improve thermal efficiency. The development race will probably become fierce in the world because Honda declared that it will focus on the development of prechamber technologies.

Honda built up a track record by employing a prechamber for a racing car for "World Touring Car Championship (WTCC)" and plans to apply it to commercially available cars.

Return of CVCC, which surprises world as measure against Muskie's law

Honda has high hopes for prechambers. It named the technology "i-CVCC," indicating that it is the return of "CVCC (compound vortex controlled combustion)," which surprised the world as a measure against the Muskie's law in the 1970s. The basis of the CVCC is the use of a prechamber.

https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/dm/atclen/n ... 091803013/

Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars (2)
https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/dm/atclen/n ... 091803014/

Original Japanese article
https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/atcl/nxt/co ... 001/02696/

Bill
Bill
5
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:28 am

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

I wonder what Mercedes response will be since they committed to building electric cars for the future,they will no longer build new combustion engine.i think their strategy will be a mistake like the Germany manufacturers going the deisel route.

User avatar
etusch
162
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Bill wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:33 am
I wonder what Mercedes response will be since they committed to building electric cars for the future,they will no longer build new combustion engine.i think their strategy will be a mistake like the Germany manufacturers going the deisel route.
I think mercedes didn't say that they did not produce ice but they said they will not develop ice engines more but then they made an agrement with some other brands to develop ice together. So they do not want to spent more on that side alone but less spent by sharing with others.
It is too early to thing full electric. Hybrid is best for everyone now. And best hybrid is only can be produced best ice.
Bmw and mazda also thinks that ice has more life than many people think. Mazda stays a bit slow on hybrid side. They can go forward of Toyota if they combine good hybrid with x engines.
Whatever, to know this plan of Honda is very good.

User avatar
Andres125sx
355
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

IMHO the huge mistake is that from Honda. ICEs are slowly passing away, like it or not. In 2050 no ICE car can be sold in Europe, so starting to develop a new technology in my mind is bold at least, even if ICEs are sold up to 2050, but I hope they will be obsolete much sooner.

There are hundred thousand millions being invested in battery technology, once anyone launch a new battery with better energy density and lower price (there are a lot of candidates with those caracteristics), ICEs will be obsolete instantly, and this development didn´t start yesterday, but several years ago so the development process is advanced.

See Nikola anouncent about his new battery wich will be shown later this year. Obviously there will always be petrolheads purchasing ICEs while they can, but they/we are only a small percentage, while companies and big investments like this must be backed up with a lot of sales

NathanE
NathanE
2
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:49 am

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

UK just announced 2035 as the target for no new ICE vehicles. Max 14 year payback is not sufficient for development of new engines. I'm with Andres on this one.

User avatar
RedNEO
-21
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 am

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:51 am
IMHO the huge mistake is that from Honda. ICEs are slowly passing away, like it or not. In 2050 no ICE car can be sold in Europe, so starting to develop a new technology in my mind is bold at least, even if ICEs are sold up to 2050, but I hope they will be obsolete much sooner.

There are hundred thousand millions being invested in battery technology, once anyone launch a new battery with better energy density and lower price (there are a lot of candidates with those caracteristics), ICEs will be obsolete instantly, and this development didn´t start yesterday, but several years ago so the development process is advanced.

See Nikola anouncent about his new battery wich will be shown later this year. Obviously there will always be petrolheads purchasing ICEs while they can, but they/we are only a small percentage, while companies and big investments like this must be backed up with a lot of sales
Uk only aims to get rid of ICE’s that run on petrol and diesel nothing about ICE’s that run on cleaner fuels. Batteries will never take over, not even close. If you live in a flat you have no way to charge one at home and the infrastructure needed to provide clean carbon free electricity to allow everyone to charge their cars at once is a pipe dream.

User avatar
Andres125sx
355
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Only if you're aiming for a new infrastructure for next year, then yes it's a pipe dream, but big changes are achieved progressively

Few years back many people said renewable energy was not an option as it would be needed thousands of PV panels and wind turbines and even so they would never produce comparable energy to big nuclear or whatever plants. Today renewable energy is a good 20-30% in many countries, some even higher

Big changes take time, but we're on the correct path

User avatar
etusch
162
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

I think governments and electric car lovers are a bit hype.
What ever! europe is not Honda's best market. They can sell their ice cars where they are already selling them and if european people wants to buy a Honda there will be electric versions too.

Petrol is bot problem but.if all the cars needed electric it will be a bit hard.

User avatar
Airshifter
4
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:20 pm

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:59 am
Only if you're aiming for a new infrastructure for next year, then yes it's a pipe dream, but big changes are achieved progressively

Few years back many people said renewable energy was not an option as it would be needed thousands of PV panels and wind turbines and even so they would never produce comparable energy to big nuclear or whatever plants. Today renewable energy is a good 20-30% in many countries, some even higher

Big changes take time, but we're on the correct path
I agree with all said above, but it also denies that these big changes will vary across the world, and many will be much slower to adopt them. Developed countries will be the first to adopt the renewable resources, as they have the tech, budgets, and greater long term concerns.

Developing economies will continue to want immediate payback on their investments, and I suspect ICE powered cars will be around for another 50 years within those economies. Manufacturers that sell globally will continue to research ways to make ICE more efficient where they market demand for their products still dictates such changes.

User avatar
DiogoBrand
95
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 6:02 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

To be honest I'm a bit skeptical with the whole "ICE car sales will be banned by year 20xx" thing.
Until then we have no idea what we'll discover, maybe EVs will be considered somehow more harmful or ICEs will have increased efficiency.
With some manufacturers focusing on EVs and some still developing ICEs, I'd say it's anyone's guess who will get it right.

User avatar
etusch
162
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Think that if mad max made nowadays, what will be the energy those stange men looking for. Electric?
Electric is good in some case and not that good in the other side. Banning ice is just a fantasy that useless politicians try to show themself as environmentalist which is a kind of pollution in the humanism.

User avatar
Andres125sx
355
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

etusch wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:03 pm
Banning ice is just a fantasy that useless politicians try to show themself as environmentalist which is a kind of pollution in the humanism.
I´m a defensor of EVs, but this is so true. Banning ICEs when there´s no alternative (yet) for everyone is populism.

Specially when you consider pollution wich comes from cars is less than a third of the pollution coming from heating, but no politician has done anything to reduce pollution from heating. Even when it´s much much easier to fight this source of pollution, they only need a new law: "any new building must comply with passivehaus or similar standard", that´s it, problem solved.

Instead of that wich could reduce pollution maybe a 30%, they cut people freedom to use their own car to reduce maybe a 2% of pollution #-o

User avatar
Big Tea
145
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:08 am
etusch wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:03 pm
Banning ice is just a fantasy that useless politicians try to show themself as environmentalist which is a kind of pollution in the humanism.
I´m a defensor of EVs, but this is so true. Banning ICEs when there´s no alternative (yet) for everyone is populism.

Specially when you consider pollution wich comes from cars is less than a third of the pollution coming from heating, but no politician has done anything to reduce pollution from heating. Even when it´s much much easier to fight this source of pollution, they only need a new law: "any new building must comply with passivehaus or similar standard", that´s it, problem solved.

Instead of that wich could reduce pollution maybe a 30%, they cut people freedom to use their own car to reduce maybe a 2% of pollution #-o
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -pollution

A start

Sales of two of the most polluting fuels, wet wood and house coal, will be phased out from 2021 to 2023, to give householders and suppliers time to move to cleaner alternatives such as dry wood and manufactured solid fuels.

...John Maingay of the British Heart Foundation said: “Wood and coal burning accounts for 40% of harmful levels of background PM2.5 in the UK, and our research has shown that toxic PM2.5 can enter the bloodstream and damage our heart and circulatory system.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

User avatar
Andres125sx
355
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Yeah, substituding coal and wood with fuel and gas, what a genius solution! [ironic mode off]

That´s exactly what I was complaining about, they know heating pollute a lot more than cars, they know we have the technology decades ago to build houses with a dramatically lower heating demand (around 90% reduction)... but they do not legislate in that direction. Why?

Because houses with no energy demands are not interesting... for some #-o so instead of promoting isulation upgrades for old buildings, they promote a switch from coal to gas.


Meanwhile our freedom is cut down (if your car is not new you cannot move around your own city!) to reduce a 2% pollution... :lol: #-o ](*,)

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
81
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: Honda Plans to Employ Prechamber for Engines of Mass-produced Cars

Post

Europe banning combustion engines is not really a problem for Japanese manufacturers. They will continue to sell in Asia, Africa, Latin America and Russia and the Middle East.

Also CNG will power road transport for some time. Pre-Chambers work great with natural gas.